Police get 93-page guide to cycling

[Vikeonabike]

If you can do any better sign up as a Special and show us how it's done......

+1

 

[summerdays]

You've got to draw the line somewhere. All staff are encouraged to go to Level 3, but the Risk Assessment is satisfied by L2.

What sort of percentage would go on to do Level 3 - the majority or the minority?

 

[marinyork]

Rather than ridicule a PCSO for asking if the bike is yours, next time thank him for checking. After all, if your bike was stolen you'd want them to look for it wouldn't you. Are you telling me that no stolen bikes end up in the hands of lycra wearers? . Think your logic through and then ask yourself whether your smug bullshit actually makes you look any better.
It's easy to carp and criticise from the sidelines. If you can do any better sign up as a Special and show us how it's done......

I don't agree with any of that. At the end of the day there is very little evidence the bicycle belongs to anybody and you'd have to take most bikes off most people and back to the station on that basis. When out cycling I don't have any more evidence that it is my bike than my SPD shoes belong to me. I could take one of the receipts with me everytime I cycle but it'd soon get crumbled damp and so on beyond all recognition. I could give a PCSO the details of the shop I bought it from where it is registered in my name but that is trusting the PCSO to be competent enough to do an investigation and trusting the shop who aren't very organised. I can comfortably predict what would happen in such a scenario.

 

[Cubist]

I don't agree with any of that. At the end of the day there is very little evidence the bicycle belongs to anybody and you'd have to take most bikes off most people and back to the station on that basis. When out cycling I don't have any more evidence that it is my bike than my SPD shoes belong to me. I could take one of the receipts with me everytime I cycle but it'd soon get crumbled damp and so on beyond all recognition. I could give a PCSO the details of the shop I bought it from where it is registered in my name but that is trusting the PCSO to be competent enough to do an investigation and trusting the shop who aren't very organised. I can comfortably predict what would happen in such a scenario.

No, but if it is recorded as stolen, they will be able to check the serial number. No one expects you to inconvenience yourself to prove what you rightfully own, but if the police don't stop anybody on a bike then they'll never find the stolen ones. To mock them for trying is very small-minded indeed.

 

[marinyork]

No, but if it is recorded as stolen, they will be able to check the serial number. No one expects you to inconvenience yourself to prove what you rightfully own, but if the police don't stop anybody on a bike then they'll never find the stolen ones. To mock them for trying is very small-minded indeed.

Yes, I'm aware of this. However I've never heard of anybody being stopped by the police flipping the bike over, checking the frame number for 15 seconds and then politely saying thank you, Sir, have a nice day. I've seen copper stop people in other cities and make a hash of it, comical arguments ensue, try and scan for a transponder and then say that's funny there isn't one on this bike. I've also been stopped often enough on foot and in cars to know the routine. One of the benefits I see of cycling is actually that as cycling isn't that popular round here the police just ignore you thinking you a strange eccentric and not a criminal like if you were on foot. I'm not particularly bothered if the police stop me and check my frame provided they do a proper job of it and aren't rude. I'd expect one of the things that winds people up is if you report a bike stolen there's no interest whatsoever but if you're cycling around a member of the police wants to insist the bike is stolen when they couldn't even point to where the frame number is. The PR needs working on.

 

[Vikeonabike]

However I've never heard of anybody being stopped by the police flipping the bike over, checking the frame number for 15 seconds and then politely saying thank you, Sir, have a nice day.

This happens on a regular basis. If we stop somebody that is riding a bike for any reason (may be description of the bike, arrest, person suspected of crime etc) then it takes no time at all to check frame number against the local crime file record whilst running a PNC check on the person.
It would be unlikely that somebody in lycra / spds etc on a high end bike would be guilty of theft (although it happens) but they may be unwittingly be riding a stolen bike. However if I see one of our local scrotes riding an expensive bike they and the bike will get spun.
Being polite is not an issue, I'm even Polite when I'm arresting them!

Moving on from this, the best way to catch criminals is by being on bikes. Most of the petty criminals in my area either go on foot or by bike. Training needs to be given to officers to enable them safely to catch and take down the bad guys without injuring themselves, the criminal or a member of public in the process!

 

[marinyork]

Moving on from this, the best way to catch criminals is by being on bikes. Most of the petty criminals in my area either go on foot or by bike. Training needs to be given to officers to enable them safely to catch and take down the bad guys without injuring themselves, the criminal or a member of public in the process!

I'm quite happy for the police to be on bikes, particularly if it means going into no go areas, hell there are enough of them. Even apart from that I'm quite happy for them to be on bikes as it gets rid of the distorted view of reality they have driving round in their cars and may even lead to more harmony when cyclists inevitably complain about being beaten up, things lobbed at them, someone driving into them and driving off etc.

I don't think you get how bad PR the 93 page manual looks though. I'm not a Daily Mail reader and it doesn't look good on the surface.

 

[John the Monkey]

Yes, I'm aware of this. However I've never heard of anybody being stopped by the police flipping the bike over, checking the frame number for 15 seconds and then politely saying thank you, Sir, have a nice day.

Happens in Manchester.

It's one of the reasons the force there (especially in the University areas) urge people to register their bikes on Immobilise (or mark them with UV pens). Both methods allow an officer to quickly check ownership there and then.

Bike theft is fairly common in the town centre, and the stolen bikes are often used to enable the thief to commit other crimes, so the crime and disorder team are quite keen to crack down on it.

 

[marinyork]

Happens in Manchester.

It's one of the reasons the force there (especially in the University areas) urge people to register their bikes on Immobilise (or mark them with UV pens). Both methods allow an officer to quickly check ownership there and then.

Bike theft is fairly common in the town centre, and the stolen bikes are often used to enable the thief to commit other crimes, so the crime and disorder team are quite keen to crack down on it.

That was what I was talking about earlier. The problem with Immobilise is not everyone will be registered with it and as soon as the police stop someone who isn't they are stumped and start throwing their weight round. It is far from what I was talking about what would be the ideal scenario.

 

[Norm]

I don't think you get how bad PR the 93 page manual looks though. I'm not a Daily Mail reader and it doesn't look good on the surface.

... is one opinion.

Other opinions may vary.

 

[Vikeonabike]

The only reason there is bad PR on it is that somebody thought it should beput out to the press.

Who in their infinite wisdom decided to make comment without any knowledge of the subject! Then gets comments from more people who have a complete lack of understanding of what the manual is trying to achieve. This then gets blown out of proportion by all and sundry. ACPO then get jittery and also deny any involvement in it.

I am fully in favour of the document, I am using it to try and get my constabulary to instigate cycle training and properly equip cyclists. After all, surly a bike being ridden by a police officer is an "Emergency Vehicle" and should be marked accordingly. It also then makes sense that if officers are to "respond" to incidents then they should be afforded the same level of training as police drivers and motorcyclists?

However as I have said before. If a police officer chasing somebody on a bike injures or kills a person during a cycle pursuit, you watch the gutter press start screaming about police officers pursuing without training!

 

[marinyork]

The only reason there is bad PR on it is that somebody thought it should beput out to the press.

I don't see why it shouldn't be out in the press. The idea will rise or fall on its own merits.

I am fully in favour of the document, I am using it to try and get my constabulary to instigate cycle training and properly equip cyclists. After all, surly a bike being ridden by a police officer is an "Emergency Vehicle" and should be marked accordingly. It also then makes sense that if officers are to "respond" to incidents then they should be afforded the same level of training as police drivers and motorcyclists?

It's a bike for crying out loud. Training is good up to a point but you seem to be trying to weigh the thing down through a weight of bureaucracy and its own self importance until it collapses. What then, no PCSOs or Police Officers on bicycles?

However as I have said before. If a police officer chasing somebody on a bike injures or kills a person during a cycle pursuit, you watch the gutter press start screaming about police officers pursuing without training!

Ultimately it's the fault of the police officer if that happened (whatever that may be). It's not the fault of the force having inadequate training (a classic way of deflecting culpability) or magic fairies or anything else. If someone cannot take that responsibility they aren't fit to be a police officer, nevermind ride a bike.

 

[John the Monkey]

There are lots of "simple" things that people need extra training in when using those things become their job though.

How much training does an officer get in the use of a baton? It's only a stick, after all.

A bike is simple. Riding it in traffic is less so. That latter task needs training at the very least - a 93 page booklet would seem to be a start and little more, given the length of Cycle Craft, as remarked previously.

 

[marinyork]

I'm aware of how long cycle craft is. Because of that (rather than a reasoning support it) and the training on top I think a 93 page manual is too long and does not look the best thing in the world or sane use of taxpayer's money. I'm willing to indulge the police a bit, but they really don't help themselves.

 

[Vikeonabike]

I


Ultimately it's the fault of the police officer if that happened (whatever that may be). It's not the fault of the force having inadequate training (a classic way of deflecting culpability) or magic fairies or anything else. If someone cannot take that responsibility they aren't fit to be a police officer, nevermind ride a bike.

It's not inadequate training, it's NO training in the case of my force!

On that basis, Police, (Ambulance or Fire crews) should not need training in response driving. After all if they cannot take the responsibility then they aren't fit to be police officers?

Honestly, riding a bike at speed in a response environment requires training. You can't just hop on a bike and ride safely. In the same way you cannot hope to drive a car safely and quickly without training. My advance driving and pursuit courses were the most stressful, mentally draining things I have ever done (all be it the most fun).

Besides this document is much more than just riding a bike. It includes public order tactic, self defence arest and restraint techniques.