Penalty points on car licences for cycling offences

[CopperCyclist]

The second car was also at fault for being too close to the car in front.

Yep, absolutely.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

If they have no desire to get a car the penalty points are pointless - they are only there to prevent you driving a car if you acrue too many. Yes, if they never want to get a licence, it doesn't work.

Its possible for someone with no licence to acrue enough and get banned from driving for a period of time.

I appreciate the last paragraph. The concept of point on a licence of a non driver for a non motoring offence is bizarre though. As I have previously stated FPN's are a far better approach.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Grown ups without cars are weird.

What a sad indictment on society if that is held to be true.

 

[snorri]

Not much point in the lay person attempting to interpret the law as described in these various links, you're not going to be discussing Acts, Paragraphs etc at the roadside with a uniformed officer on a wet evening.
If unfortunate enough to be accused of falling foul of the law it is as well to pay for experts in the field to argue your case at a later date.
Is it not?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Not much point in the lay person attempting to interpret the law as described in these various links, you're not going to be discussing Acts, Paragraphs etc at the roadside with a uniformed officer on a wet evening.
If unfortunate enough to be accused of falling foul of the law it is as well to pay for experts in the field to argue your case at a later date.
Is it not?

Yes. I would be happy to go to court to fight my case if I knew the Police Officer to be wrong.

 

[lulubel]

I would have thought the point here is that you don't need a licence to cycle, so the notion of putting points on a licence that effectively doesn't exist (and never will exist, as the law stands) is laughable.

 

[MissTillyFlop]

I'll say now - I don't know the answer to this one, I've found contrasting opinions from everything from CPS lawyers to inspectors. What I can say is that generally, you don't get points.

Heres the however: one of my colleagues insists that she once reported a cyclist for a RLJ, who actually caused a collision (albeit a no damage one). He crossed on red, lead car going through on green slammed on brakes, secondary car did so as well but not quick enough and hit lead car. Luckily he or she hit the brakes fast enough to avoid any damage, though contact was made.

The third car in the queue was driven by my colleague, who did stop in time, and also stopped the cyclist. She tells me that he went to court and got three points on his still provisional driving licence, as the magistrates were allowed to put points on at their own discretion based on the severity of the offence.

Lastly, someone mentioned how you could get points if you don't hold a licence. That one IS possible and happens a lot, mostly with underage joyriders. If a court imposes points, the DVLA create a licence that sits on the system waiting for them to apply. When/if they do, those points are sitting on the licence waiting for them.

What about those of us disqualified from ever holding a licence on medical grounds? Or will they just send the men in the little white van around for me?

I just had to give the licence back, I have never felt better. I ended the last four driving tests myself because I started having a panick attack, once on the A14 in rush hour - that was fun. I don't know why, but I have a phobia of driving a car. I'm fine on a motorbike, which is probably way more dangerous, but there you are.

But does this mean that I don't get punished if I do something stupid and my partner who has a driving licence does? Seems a bit unfair, that.

 

[machew]

[QUOTE 1539376"]


I take it you know where the e-petition website is....?[/quote]

And the MPs have decided that as there is no time in the current session for extra debates, and no MP is going to push for a debate on an issue that is unlikely to ever get past the debating session. That the e-petitions that get 10000 votes, will be looked at some time in the future ie never

 

[david k]

What if you dont have a car licence? Just punish those that do?

+1

 

[gypsy]

+1

if you break a road traffic law then a fine yes, but penalty points? no because not everyone has got a licence and it wouldnt be fair to treat people that have differently.imo

 

[CopperCyclist]

Yes. I would be happy to go to court to fight my case if I knew the Police Officer to be wrong.

This. Don't be intimidated for court. If the offence is minor enough that you don't get legal aid and have to defend yourself, you'd be surprised how capable the average person is of this, and how understanding the courts will be to 'walk you through it'. I know of a few people who have defended themselves and been successful. I also know of at least one person that must have paid a lawyer a small fortune to avoid what could have been a 30 pound fine!

 

[Bicycle]

In my miss-spent youth I was given endorsements for something I did on a bike....

There were no points in those days, but the two endorsements were enough for a 2-month ban.

I was sixteen and the two months wree up before I was seventeen, so it didn't keep me off the roads...

Of course I did end up paying quite a lot to insure my car for a few years once I'd passed my test, but I didn't resent it.

It seemed fair at the time that I should go to court and collect a fine and endorsements for the way I was riding.

I haven't been banned since, so it must have been a deterrent.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Hadn't intended for this to be a thread about RLJ, that was incidental to my main question. Wasn't even asking whether cyclists SHOULD get points or not.

More interested in what the legal basis might be for cyclists to be awarded points on a car licence for any offence that attracts points when in a car. Driving/riding illegally on a motorway, or riding under the influence for example if you want to get away from RLJ.

There's clearly different views on this from bald assertions that "cyclists can't be given points" to "magistrates can award points if they feel like it", but there doesn't seem to be anything formal or official about any of this. Lots of people (here and elsewhere) saying its unworkable but then CopperC comes up with a worked example!

The example from the climbing forum is one where someone is accepting a fine for RLJing (missed the deadline for paying a FPN) but wishes to query the awarding of points for the offence. Has he got any legs to stand on and if so where are they?! Does he simply write to the court enclosing his cheque but declining to forward his licence since its inappropriate?

This is happening in Scotland - any differences south of the border?

Of course, I'm just bored of well y'know

Its still unworkable: The example works based on you holding a provisional licence. Which is still optional and not required for a cyclist or anyone else who doesn't intend to drive.

For your friend, I would advise him to not do anything without legal advice. If he's in a union they may have a helpline or to contact Citizens Advice.

Personally I would refuse point blank, my license is for a motor vehicle not for my bike.