Penalty points on car licences for cycling offences

[PoweredByVeg]

I know the OP was about RLJ's, but what about cycling while a bit pissed

 

[CopperCyclist]

I'll say now - I don't know the answer to this one, I've found contrasting opinions from everything from CPS lawyers to inspectors. What I can say is that generally, you don't get points.

Heres the however: one of my colleagues insists that she once reported a cyclist for a RLJ, who actually caused a collision (albeit a no damage one). He crossed on red, lead car going through on green slammed on brakes, secondary car did so as well but not quick enough and hit lead car. Luckily he or she hit the brakes fast enough to avoid any damage, though contact was made.

The third car in the queue was driven by my colleague, who did stop in time, and also stopped the cyclist. She tells me that he went to court and got three points on his still provisional driving licence, as the magistrates were allowed to put points on at their own discretion based on the severity of the offence.

Lastly, someone mentioned how you could get points if you don't hold a licence. That one IS possible and happens a lot, mostly with underage joyriders. If a court imposes points, the DVLA create a licence that sits on the system waiting for them to apply. When/if they do, those points are sitting on the licence waiting for them.

 

[wiggydiggy]

What if you dont have a car licence? Just punish those that do?

Unworkable nonsense.

This.

Kills the argument stone dead, arent we bored of RLJ threads by now?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

What if you dont have a car licence? Just punish those that do?

Unworkable nonsense.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I'll say now - I don't know the answer to this one, I've found contrasting opinions from everything from CPS lawyers to inspectors. What I can say is that generally, you don't get points.

Heres the however: one of my colleagues insists that she once reported a cyclist for a RLJ, who actually caused a collision (albeit a no damage one). He crossed on red, lead car going through on green slammed on brakes, secondary car did so as well but not quick enough and hit lead car. Luckily he or she hit the brakes fast enough to avoid any damage, though contact was made.

The third car in the queue was driven by my colleague, who did stop in time, and also stopped the cyclist. She tells me that he went to court and got three points on his still provisional driving licence, as the magistrates were allowed to put points on at their own discretion based on the severity of the offence.

Lastly, someone mentioned how you could get points if you don't hold a licence. That one IS possible and happens a lot, mostly with underage joyriders. If a court imposes points, the DVLA create a licence that sits on the system waiting for them to apply. When/if they do, those points are sitting on the licence waiting for them.

I honestly believe your colleague is talking bollox. I am sure that this would have made the papers and I can find no trace of it.

I appreciate the last paragraph to be true to relation to driving offences but again I fail to see how it is possible for a violation involving a non motorised vehicle.

 

[nickprior]

...arent we bored of RLJ threads by now?

Hadn't intended for this to be a thread about RLJ, that was incidental to my main question. Wasn't even asking whether cyclists SHOULD get points or not.

More interested in what the legal basis might be for cyclists to be awarded points on a car licence for any offence that attracts points when in a car. Driving/riding illegally on a motorway, or riding under the influence for example if you want to get away from RLJ.

There's clearly different views on this from bald assertions that "cyclists can't be given points" to "magistrates can award points if they feel like it", but there doesn't seem to be anything formal or official about any of this. Lots of people (here and elsewhere) saying its unworkable but then CopperC comes up with a worked example!

The example from the climbing forum is one where someone is accepting a fine for RLJing (missed the deadline for paying a FPN) but wishes to query the awarding of points for the offence. Has he got any legs to stand on and if so where are they?! Does he simply write to the court enclosing his cheque but declining to forward his licence since its inappropriate?

This is happening in Scotland - any differences south of the border?

 

[benb]

I'll say now - I don't know the answer to this one, I've found contrasting opinions from everything from CPS lawyers to inspectors. What I can say is that generally, you don't get points.

Heres the however: one of my colleagues insists that she once reported a cyclist for a RLJ, who actually caused a collision (albeit a no damage one). He crossed on red, lead car going through on green slammed on brakes, secondary car did so as well but not quick enough and hit lead car. Luckily he or she hit the brakes fast enough to avoid any damage, though contact was made.

The third car in the queue was driven by my colleague, who did stop in time, and also stopped the cyclist. She tells me that he went to court and got three points on his still provisional driving licence, as the magistrates were allowed to put points on at their own discretion based on the severity of the offence.

Lastly, someone mentioned how you could get points if you don't hold a licence. That one IS possible and happens a lot, mostly with underage joyriders. If a court imposes points, the DVLA create a licence that sits on the system waiting for them to apply. When/if they do, those points are sitting on the licence waiting for them.

The second car was also at fault for being too close to the car in front.

 

[srw]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...-traffic-and-to-pedestrians-and-traffic-signs

That's the law - RTA section 36.

(1)Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

(My emphasis)

So the law is the same for car drivers and for cyclists.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/10/made

That's the link which specifies that red lights are a "traffic sign".

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2

That's the link which specifies that a breach of RTA section 36 is punishable by 3 penalty points. That table (see section 37) applies to all road users. There is no specific provision for cyclists to get around the fact that going through a red light earns you 3 penalty points on your driving licence.

 

[srw]

I know the OP was about RLJ's, but what about cycling while a bit pissed

30 Cycling when under influence of drink or drugs.
(1)A person who, when riding a cycle on a road or other public place, is unfit to ride through drink or drugs (that is to say, is under the influence of drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle) is guilty of an offence.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/30

A bit pissed is OK. Completely blotto is illegal - and stupid.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

http://www.legislati...d-traffic-signs

That's the law - RTA section 36.


(My emphasis)

So the law is the same for car drivers and for cyclists.

http://www.legislati...ulation/10/made

That's the link which specifies that red lights are a "traffic sign".

http://www.legislati...8/53/schedule/2

That's the link which specifies that a breach of RTA section 36 is punishable by 3 penalty points. That table (see section 37) applies to all road users. There is no specific provision for cyclists to get around the fact that going through a red light earns you 3 penalty points on your driving licence.

Interesting. I failed to notice that. Trouble is if a person has no desire to ever get a car what happens? Their created licence keeps accrewing points but to what end? The 13th point is a driving ban (unless mitigation is pled) but what affect does that have on the cyclist? I think FPN's based on X^n (where n=n+1) would be a far better idea. £30 for first 3 points, £900 for next three, £729000000 for next three.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

[QUOTE 1539376"]
I take it you know where the e-petition website is....?
[/quote]

I do yes. However I think it might be seen as overkill by some. No idea why

 

[Bicycle]

Originally posted in reply to OP...

But edited out as my points had been made by others.

 

[ufkacbln]

I dont have a car license, does that mean that I could get away with going through all the traffic lights where I live when they are on red? Dont think so.

If this is true, then whoever thought of it must be on crack. Cyclists can only get fines (and court punishments) but how can you relate cycling offences to driving licenses? What utter rubbish.

Driving isnt a necessity, therefore if a police officer pulled you over for RLJing, and you said that you didnt have a driving license, would he then say "Well when you get one, you will have 3 points on it". You may not get a driving license in your life.

People think that nowadays, you have to have a car to get anywhere. But we have got 6 modes of public transport which we are able to use:

1. Aircraft
2. Marine vehicles
3. Trains
4. Buses
5. Taxi's
6. Human powered transport (cycling/walking)

Sorry for the rant but this has annoyed me a little.

Even funnier - I had to apply for a "Smart Card" for work.

I can fly with my works ID, but the company does not accept its own ID as sufficient proof of identity


Hence the farce started.

We need a photo driving license - I haven't got one
We need a passport - I haven't got one

Well we can't issue the card - I can't do my job without it



So after some 6 weeks we eventually decided on a range of "proofs" of who I was, but the whole format was designed around everyone holding a liense.

 

[Nick Salt]

Grown ups without cars are weird.

Cars are for the elderly and infirm.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Interesting. I failed to notice that. Trouble is if a person has no desire to ever get a car what happens? Their created licence keeps accrewing points but to what end? The 13th point is a driving ban (unless mitigation is pled) but what affect does that have on the cyclist? I think FPN's based on X^n (where n=n+1) would be a far better idea. £30 for first 3 points, £900 for next three, £729000000 for next three.

If they have no desire to get a car the penalty points are pointless - they are only there to prevent you driving a car if you acrue too many. Yes, if they never want to get a licence, it doesn't work.

Its possible for someone with no licence to acrue enough and get banned from driving for a period of time.