PCP confusion!

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gzoom

Über Member
My mate got his first car through NHS salary sacrifice. It worked for him because he knew nothing about cars, or servicing, and also the insurance was much cheaper than outside quotes. He then paid off the rest of the car so he owned it, then sold it. It can work for some, but yes a very pricey way to do it if you're not comfortable money wise

That must be a long time ago, so someone wasn't 100% sure what was going on.

NHS salary sacrifice as done as lease contracts via third party, there are all kinds of tax/pensions stuff going on. I've not heard of anyone been able to 'buy out' a NHS salary sacrifice car. I'm pretty sure you need to pay some kind of BIK or resale tax even if the company let you buy out the car.
 

gzoom

Über Member
The interest rate was lower than our savings were earning and the deposit was covered by our old car.......

.....We may stick with PCP's indefinitely especially if interest rate deals remain favourable.

Roughly 18 months ago I secured essentially 1.85APR rate fixed for 8 years on a 13 year mortgage product, allowing me to essentially pay down roughly 80% of the debt at sub 2% interest. With inflation at 10%, and pay going up, the mortgage debt is essentially as close to 'free' money as you can get, as inflation is paying off the capital with no extra effort from my self.

Ask the same question now to the banks, and you are looking at 5%.

PCP APR rates are now close to 10%. The days of cheap borrowing is over, but if you pay off the car, you will still have 'bought' it to own for a very low borrowing cost.
 
OP
OP
SpokeyDokey

SpokeyDokey

67, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
Roughly 18 months ago I secured essentially 1.85APR rate fixed for 8 years on a 13 year mortgage product, allowing me to essentially pay down roughly 80% of the debt at sub 2% interest. With inflation at 10%, and pay going up, the mortgage debt is essentially as close to 'free' money as you can get, as inflation is paying off the capital with no extra effort from my self.

Ask the same question now to the banks, and you are looking at 5%.

PCP APR rates are now close to 10%. The days of cheap borrowing is over, but if you pay off the car, you will still have 'bought' it to own for a very low borrowing cost.

No mortgage here.

Our PCP rate is lower than that being received from the particular tranche of savings that was accessible to us, should we have wished to pay cash, at the time of purchase.

On this occasion a PCP worked for us, maybe it won't next time around but we will re-evalulate accordingly.

Tbh the car purchase is not a particularly big purchase for us. The PCP net cost pa is around £4k (inclusive of credit charge). That's an annual figure that we are happy with to 'own' a relatively modest car that is safe, reliable and has predictable costs.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
Second hand cars are/were stupid money as well .
This seems to be a recent phenomenon. sure I've put it before, bought our car in 2015 it was 7 years old with 90k on clock for £6.5k, now to buy the same car now which is 7 years old the cost is £17k, I know my salary hasn't kept up with that.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
I was buying company cars for years, and my mates were always trying to convince me that PCP or whatever was the fashion for separating us from our money was being foisted on the unwary at the time. I looked at it upside down and inside out, but could never make it work for me. Cash is still very much king for me. :okay:
Same here. If I can't afford it I don't bloody well have it.

I can just about afford the new cars for Mrs D. With demand and prices as they are it's actually cheaper than any other means of obtaining one. We sold the Pornstar at 20 months old for a 5.5k loss - it would have cost £6000 for a year's PCP kver a 3 yesr deal, 500 quid a month, plus fat deposit, plus cash lost buying tyres and servicing on a car we wouldn't own.

Bought her the Mini SE outright, and when it went in for its 6 month safety check the salesman was begging to buy it back at what we paid, such is the lack of supply. T'was tempting, but the 8 month wait for a replacement was simply impractical.

I'm not so fussed for myself, so long as its tidy and reliable I don't care how old it is and don't give a sheet what my neighbour with the Aston Martin thinks. The difference is I'm 55 and been retired 6 years, he's the same age as me and does not honestly know when he'll be able to retire, such is the amount of money he shovels out each mo th on loans, PCP, credit card, all the rest of it. You should have seen him squirm when mortgage rates started rising.

Twice now in recent memory the economy has come close, such is the level of household debt and consequential lack of wiggle room with personal debt levels. The whole edifice will collapse some day and we'll be plunged into a depression from which we may never recover simply because people spend money they havent got on items they can't afford to impress people who couldn't care less.
 

gzoom

Über Member
You should have seen him squirm when mortgage rates started rising.

No one who’s taken out a mortgage out in the last 2 year should be squirming, anyone with a sense of financial forward planning should have recognised the gift horse that was below inflation borrowing locked in for decade. In fact I wish I had borrowed MORE, ‘free’ money isn’t something that comes along often, the opportunity is not gone, but it was 100% there.

If you had taken out additional borrowing at sub 2% borrowing, you can simply put in a higher rate ISA/NSI savings account for the next 10 years earning more interest than cost borrowing for zero risk or effort.

What other people do is pretty irrelevant, it about what works for you own situation. For us I honesty wish we have leveraged our borrowing potential more, but I cannot complain too much as the cheap/free borrowing has enabled us to essentially time shift capital for building works forwards by 5 years+. Time ultimately is the most valuable currency, and if you can get time shift for no monetary risk, its a no brainier.
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
Spent ages a couple of days back trying to explain how a PCP works to a friend who is convinced that his 4 year £480 pm payment is the true cost of the deal.

No way could I get him to understand that he also needs to amortise his £17000 deposit across the 4 years as well and that adding the two amounts together will give him the true monthly cost.
Not really. Most PCPs are designed to leave some equity at the end of the term, so you can use it as deposit in a new scheme and do it all again.

Last time I only put down a £2,000 deposit but finished with £6,000 equity at trade-in, so the cost of the deal was far less than the monthly payments.

Why buy a new car? Two reasons:

1. Warranty
2. Hardly anyone looks after cars now. I have been badly burned on 3 year old cars that had badly repaired damage* or annoying faults.

I either buy new, or very old and privately.

*you can't tell until the rust comes through the paint
 
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gbb

Squire
Location
Peterborough
Finances finances, whether its PCP or anything else financial in life, if you want something before you can really afford it, you risk locking yourself into paying debt...forever. very simplistic but generally true.
we got married young, struggled to pay bills in the late 70s and accordingly budgeted really hard, with manageable loans paid off with all speed.
And always aiming to save, use that money to build a buffer, a safety net, rather than using it for stuff that doubtless gives enjoyment at the time, but can be ephemeral.
Its stayed with us all our married lives and while life can be somewhat constrained, with that ethic...it all comes round. Since our late 40s, Its left us so free to do what we want, excess money each week, savings in the tens of thousands, mortgage paid off, a nice car...all with very little debt compared to others.
Debt is OK, but it MUST be manageable and for worthwhile things, we always took on debt we knew we could pay off if things went south, yes we'd empty the bank but we'd still be free (mortgage excluded at the time of course, but you pay rent, you pay mortgage, there's no escaping that)
We never earned big money but a relatively constrained lifestyle has left us with assets and cash worth....i struggle to understand how its grown to the degree it has. Its incredibly liberating, the lack of debt.
 

gzoom

Über Member
On this occasion a PCP worked for us, maybe it won't next time around but we will re-evalulate accordingly.

That's the most important bit isn't it. Make sure it works your needs. Our two cars were cash purchases, one is 8 years old now the other coming up to 7. Been fully owned means no need to put money into cars, as our priority is now the house (what's left of it at present :smile:).

Borrowing rates from 2 years ago really were a once in a lifetime opportunity.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
No one who’s taken out a mortgage out in the last 2 year should be squirming, anyone with a sense of financial forward planning should have recognised the gift horse that was below inflation borrowing locked in for decade. In fact I wish I had borrowed MORE, ‘free’ money isn’t something that comes along often, the opportunity is not gone, but it was 100% there.

If you had taken out additional borrowing at sub 2% borrowing, you can simply put in a higher rate ISA/NSI savings account for the next 10 years earning more interest than cost borrowing for zero risk or effort.

What other people do is pretty irrelevant, it about what works for you own situation. For us I honesty wish we have leveraged our borrowing potential more, but I cannot complain too much as the cheap/free borrowing has enabled us to essentially time shift capital for building works forwards by 5 years+. Time ultimately is the most valuable currency, and if you can get time shift for no monetary risk, its a no brainier.

Probably not the thread for it, but I read all your words & they just simply do not make any sense to me, that's not a dig to anything, just a simple fact although I am realistically good at maths, I cannot do personal finances to save my life, which as I approach retirement age is something it might not do.
 
OP
OP
SpokeyDokey

SpokeyDokey

67, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
Not really. Most PCPs are designed to leave some equity at the end of the term, so you can use it as deposit in a new scheme and do it all again.

Last time I only put down a £2,000 deposit but finished with £6,000 equity at trade-in, so the cost of the deal was far less than the monthly payments.

Why buy a new car? Two reasons:

1. Warranty
2. Hardly anyone looks after cars now. I have been badly burned on 3 year old cars that had badly repaired damage* or annoying faults.

I either buy new, or very old and privately.

*you can't tell until the rust comes through the paint

Re "Not really" - I have to disagree with you.

The basic premise of PCP's is that you pay a deposit & monthly payments that cover the depreciation that reduces the initial cost of the car to its end of term residual value.

Now I will agree with you! Many marques do tend to give a pessimistic estimate of the residual value which makes for a happy owner when their car is worth more than they expected at the end of the PCP term - as a side effect this obviously increases the monthly payment across the term. This has been exacerbated recently due to the very high p/x prices of used cars. Whether that will happen again to the current extent remains to be seen. My guess is not, once chips etc become more readily available and new car lead times drop back to a more normal situation.

Our p/x car against the new one only depreciated £500 in 20 months of ownership and the dealer had pre-sold it at +£2600 over the price we paid 20 months previously - mad world!
 
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