Pavement cycling/RLJ

[User482]

Yep that's another reason, I wouldn't want to pull off from a red light the same time as a truck/bus far better to RLJ {IF IT'S SAFE!! (for the last time!)} and get a headstart down the road and then ride in respect of the truck/bus overtaking.

Or assume primary position behind the truck and then not have to worry about it overtaking you. You should read Cyclecraft, you'll find it very informative.

 

[nickb]

Curious. I do cycle within the rules and only rarely come into conflict with motorists.

Try doing my daily commute in Cardiff.

There is no reliable evidence to suggest that breaking the rules increases safety for cyclists.

That Times article looked as if it might have a kernel of truth in it.

On the subject in general:

My attitude is that cyclists are more like pedestrians with wheels than motorists without engines.

This may have something to do with the fact that I've been riding a bike since I was a toddler and started out doing so on pavements and learning to treat other pavement users with caution and respect. I slowly transferred to riding on the road, to the extent that the local copper would tell me off, as a teenager, if he caught be riding on the pavement (curious how we're now expected to ride on the pavement again if the council paint a white line down the middle of it ).

This probably explains my attitude towards red lights. If I'm a pedestrian at a Pelican crossing, I will treat a red light as a statement that, if I want to cross, I should do so with caution. A green light just gives me the priority - the need for caution remains.

Seeing cyclists breeze through red lights without seeming to look or make any concession to other road users boils my blood in the same way as seeing a pedestrian just step out into the road. Watching a cyclist approach a red light with caution, look around and carry on through, adopting an appropriate road postion, doesn't bother me in the least.

I don't feel myself to be part of some special club just because I'm a cyclist, where all of my actions can potentially let the side down. I cycle because it's an efficient way to commute and to exercise. I couldn't give a monkey's about why other people choose to do it or evangelising about cycling to others.

 

[User482]

I'm still alive, after 1000 times or more and will add to that tomorrow when I go out for a quick burn.

The fact that you keep referring back to your own health rather proves my point that RLJing is primarily about selfishness.

 

[User482]

Try doing my daily commute in Cardiff.
That Times article looked as if it might have a kernel of truth in it.

On the subject in general:

My attitude is that cyclists are more like pedestrians with wheels than motorists without engines.

This may have something to do with the fact that I've been riding a bike since I was a toddler and started out doing so on pavements and learning to treat other pavement users with caution and respect. I slowly transferred to riding on the road, to the extent that the local copper would tell me off, as a teenager, if he caught be riding on the pavement (curious how we're now expected to ride on the pavement again if the council paint a white line down the middle of it ).

This probably explains my attitude towards red lights. If I'm a pedestrian at a Pelican crossing, I will treat a red light as a statement that, if I want to cross, I should do so with caution. A green light just gives me the priority - the need for caution remains.

Seeing cyclists breeze through red lights without seeming to look or make any concession to other road users boils my blood in the same way as seeing a pedestrian just step out into the road. Watching a cyclist approach a red light with caution, look around and carry on through, adopting an appropriate road postion, doesn't bother me in the least.

I don't feel myself to be part of some special club just because I'm a cyclist, where all of my actions can potentially let the side down. I cycle because it's an efficient way to commute and to exercise. I couldn't give a monkey's about why other people choose to do it or evangelising about cycling to others.

Interesting. I've commuted daily in Bristol for the last 5 years. Are you suggesting that the driving and road conditions are significantly worse in Cardiff?

If the Times article stops cyclists from being in an HGV's blind spot then it has done a good job. But it has nothing to say one way or the other about RLJing.

To take your final point: " I couldn't give a monkey's about why other people choose to do it or evangelising about cycling to others"

You see that's the problem. Other road users think less of people like me because of the actions of people like you.

 

[Funtboy]

Sorry, I asked for evidence that not RLJing increases risk to the cyclist. There is nothing in that article to say that it does. What it does do, is make the fairly obvious point that waiting in a lorry driver's blind spot is dangerous. You can avoid doing so either by RLJing, or by waiting further back (which is what I do).

Correlation does not equal causation.

It does point to fairly obvious fact that making space between you and a waiting pack of cars and lorries is probably safer than everyone pulling off together. Out of interest, have you ever witnessed an accident caused by red light jumping? Have you heard of any? I'm not saying they don't happen but I imagine it is very rare occurrence.

As for perception, well I'm not going to lose any sleep. I think most people have a reasonably balanced view of us cyclists but a few narrow-minded idiots make the most noise (that's not directed at you btw).

 

[Funtboy]

Try doing my daily commute in Cardiff.
That Times article looked as if it might have a kernel of truth in it.

On the subject in general:

My attitude is that cyclists are more like pedestrians with wheels than motorists without engines.

This may have something to do with the fact that I've been riding a bike since I was a toddler and started out doing so on pavements and learning to treat other pavement users with caution and respect. I slowly transferred to riding on the road, to the extent that the local copper would tell me off, as a teenager, if he caught be riding on the pavement (curious how we're now expected to ride on the pavement again if the council paint a white line down the middle of it ).

This probably explains my attitude towards red lights. If I'm a pedestrian at a Pelican crossing, I will treat a red light as a statement that, if I want to cross, I should do so with caution. A green light just gives me the priority - the need for caution remains.

Seeing cyclists breeze through red lights without seeming to look or make any concession to other road users boils my blood in the same way as seeing a pedestrian just step out into the road. Watching a cyclist approach a red light with caution, look around and carry on through, adopting an appropriate road postion, doesn't bother me in the least.

I don't feel myself to be part of some special club just because I'm a cyclist, where all of my actions can potentially let the side down. I cycle because it's an efficient way to commute and to exercise. I couldn't give a monkey's about why other people choose to do it or evangelising about cycling to others.

Brilliant post.

 

[User482]

It does point to fairly obvious fact that making space between you and a waiting pack of cars and lorries is probably safer than everyone pulling off together.

It doesn't. It says that being in a large vehicle's blind spot is dangerous. That is all.

Out of interest, have you ever witnessed an accident caused by red light jumping? Have you heard of any? I'm not saying they don't happen but I imagine it is very rare occurrence.

Yes to both of your questions.

As for perception, well I'm not going to lose any sleep. I think most people have a reasonably balanced view of us cyclists but a few narrow-minded idiots make the most noise (that's not directed at you btw).

Whenever a discussion with non cycling friends turns to cycling, the number one gripe is RLJing. And to be fair, it is a reasonably balanced viewpoint on their part.

 

[User482]

What?!?!? shut up you idiot, you have not got a clue, that comment is so out of touch it's unreal. The suggestion that what a cyclist does has any effect on a driver when they come across another cyclist?!?! LMFAO

Your descent into gratuitous insult is just an embarrasment to yourself now.

Are you actually suggesting that a motorist's view of cyclists in general is not influenced by the actions of RLJers?

Try a little less ranting and a little more thinking.

 

[Funtboy]

It doesn't. It says that being in a large vehicle's blind spot is dangerous. That is all.

I know it doesn't actually say that but I am suggesting that it does highlight the general idea that making space is safer than being clogged up with the pack.

 

[Funtboy]

Yes to both of your questions.

Fair enough, could you supply me with a more comprehensive set of stats on this subject.

 

[Funtboy]

Whenever a discussion with non cycling friends turns to cycling, the number one gripe is RLJing. And to be fair, it is a reasonably balanced viewpoint on their part.

What bugs them in particular? Have they been made to slow down because of someone crossing their path? If so, then I agree with them.

 

[User482]

Fair enough, could you supply me with a more comprehensive set of stats on this subject.

I don't have any stats, nor am I aware of any. I have seen pedestrians struck by RLJing cyclists on a few occasions and I have heard of a woman being seriously injured in Bristol City centre, again by an RLJer. Based on my own experience (which is only anecdote) I would say that minor accidents and near misses due to RLJ are quite common, but serious accidents very rare.

As an aside, do you remember the case of the cyclist killed by a driver who was texting on her phone. Clearly the driver's fault, but the cyclist would still be alive had he not RLJ'd. Food for thought?

 

[User482]

Just telling it how it is. I drive a truck for a living and when I see cyclists out on the road RLJing it does not anger me at all. It also does not fill me with contempt for other cyclists. This would be true even if I didn't cycle.

I think you need to think some more before you post.

No, you're telling it how you think it is. Which is not the same thing at all. Just because you are not angered by RLJ (and why would you be? It would be completely hypocritical) does not mean that other motorists are not angered by it.

You seem only to be able to refer to your own direct experience for evidence. It doesn't make for a strong argument.

 

[nickb]

Interesting. I've commuted daily in Bristol for the last 5 years. Are you suggesting that the driving and road conditions are significantly worse in Cardiff?

I've no idea, but....

I haven't lived in Bristol since 1979. Back in those days, Bristol was a very pleasant place to cycle. My daily commute was from Clifton to the Broadmead (via Park Street).

Arriving in Cardiff, 22 years ago, I was very struck by how selfish drivers in general seem to be, and it's got a lot worse since then.

So, my 'empirical' evidence would suggest: Yes

You see that's the problem. Other road users think less of people like me because of the actions of people like you.

That's the problem with stereotyping people

I often see pedestrians acting like idiots; barging people out of the way, stopping in the middle of the pavement for a chat etc. Likewise, I see plenty of drivers behaving like fools, with no regard for the safety or needs of other roads users. I'm never tempted to think 'huh - pedestrians, what twats' or 'fecking car drivers are all the same'.

I only reserve a broad tarbrush for politicians & evangelists.

 

[swee'pea99]

There are very few situations in which you can be absolutely certain that someone else won't do something suddenly.

Er, no - there aren't very few. There are loads.