Oil thread (vehicles)

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Jody

Stubborn git
.....and what the feck is a pollen filter?šŸ¤”

Does what it says on the tin
 
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palinurus

Velo, boulot, dodo
Location
Watford
Sometimes, yes. Perhaps I should elaborate a bit on the development process.

There are four big players in the engine oil additive world: Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton and Oronite. Between then they provide most of the additives globally (and all of them have much wider business footprints too). For many engine oils, each additive supplier will offer a package of additives - a pre-mixed concentrate of all the main additives - to which you add the appropriate base oils to get the finished oil. In truth it is often much more complex than that, but it's a simplified view.

This means that many oil suppliers, particularly smaller ones with small resource pools, can take an additive package, blend it to the right viscosity using the right base oils and then have whatever approvals or performance that package offers - no need for expensive and lengthy in-house product development teams and programs. Larger oilcos will have a more complex portfolio of products, some of which may follow the same approach (maybe the lower-tier stuff), but some will be bespoke. Either developed in collaboration with the add-co (and therefore exclusive) or using an add-co package and then modifying it with additional ingredients to enhance or differentiate it. Or even developed from first principles using whatever prime additives serve the purpose.

When developing a formulation there are a number of factors to consider. Performance is important, as well as meeting whatever OEM and industry approvals are required to underpin the product being developed. There's also cost. And supply chain - location of additive and base oil suppliers vs your own blending facilities for example, and also location of your blending facilities compared to your sales markets. Not to mention the various health and safety requirements, REACH and other registrations and the HSSE consequences of using certain chemicals.

In terms of performance, there are some constraints in terms of what you can use. Lots of oil specifications include limits on various physical and chemical parameters - for example phosphorus (which poisons catalytic converters) or metallic elements (Zn, Ca, Mg etc) which form DPF/GPF-blocking oxides. There are also some additives that don't interact well with each other and can cause instability or degradation of performance. A lot of this is learned through experience and so when designing an experiment there are places you simply don't go because you know it's off-limits. But when trying to decide if one detergent type and one anti-wear type is better than another you might form an experimental matrix to screen for the best combinations. The further you go in the development process the more expensive and time-consuming it becomes though, so you have to use quick screening tests early on to allow you to spend the time and money on the most likely candidate(s). Given what I said up-thread about the number of options for additives, a full design matrix of all base oil and additive types and dosages across the whole formulation would be impossibly large. There are some modelling options that can help predict outcomes.

This is interesting, all of the general points related to constraints apply- in different ways- to solder formulation- except that the bigger companies do not supply premixed materials to smaller companies- well, not for fluxes (alloy compositions are based partly on thermodynamic models and tend to be fixed by specifications agreed by standards committees, innovation in this area is slow due to the need for long-term mechanical reliability data). Our formulations might contain between 5 and 20+ ingredients so formulation design approach tends to be reduced to a base (stuff you need to have or already know about) plus whatever extras are under study (following pre-screening).

Industrial and automotive electronics are pretty big markets so a lot of the work involves testing to the internal standards of large manufacturers in these areas. They will each have lists of proscribed substances which might be based on legislation but which may have wider coverage, or encompass likely future legislation.
 
OP
OP
figbat

figbat

Slippery scientist
This is interesting, all of the general points related to constraints apply- in different ways- to solder formulation- except that the bigger companies do not supply premixed materials to smaller companies- well, not for fluxes (alloy compositions are based partly on thermodynamic models and tend to be fixed by specifications agreed by standards committees, innovation in this area is slow due to the need for long-term mechanical reliability data). Our formulations might contain between 5 and 20+ ingredients so formulation design approach tends to be reduced to a base (stuff you need to have or already know about) plus whatever extras are under study (following pre-screening).

Industrial and automotive electronics are pretty big markets so a lot of the work involves testing to the internal standards of large manufacturers in these areas. They will each have lists of proscribed substances which might be based on legislation but which may have wider coverage, or encompass likely future legislation.

Now I have the same reaction to this as many do to oil - I had no idea that solder was so complex!
 

DRM

Guru
Location
West Yorks
Run it once a week to prevent smells building up

AC will increase fuel usage by up to 10% and the only way to accurately measure it will be in a controlled environment.

Turn it off and watch the revs go up slightly or turn it back on and watch it drop.

Thatā€™s rubbish nowadays, put the A/C on and leave it on, on cold days the cars windows will clear far quicker due to the dried air, also having the gas and lubricants circulating prevents expensive repairs , I always leave it on in my own cars and works vans and never had problems
 

Jody

Stubborn git
Thatā€™s rubbish nowadays, put the A/C on and leave it on, on cold days the cars windows will clear far quicker due to the dried air, also having the gas and lubricants circulating prevents expensive repairs , I always leave it on in my own cars and works vans and never had problems

Of course it's not rubbish. Anything that adds load to your engine costs efficiency. Especially a compressor and it's associated electrics.

Running you AC every week or two does the same. It's only prolonged periods of inactivity that cause issues

https://www.coolcaraircon.co.uk/usi...ould run your car's,to move around the system.

"There is no doubt about the fact that turning your carā€™s AC will cause extra fuel to be used."

"You should run your carā€™s AC for ten minutes in every couple of weeks"
 

DRM

Guru
Location
West Yorks
Of course it's not rubbish. Anything that adds load to your engine costs efficiency. Especially a compressor and it's associated electrics.

Running you AC every week or two does the same. It's only prolonged periods of inactivity that cause issues

https://www.coolcaraircon.co.uk/using-car-air-conditioning-all-year-round/#:~:text=You should run your car's,to move around the system.

"There is no doubt about the fact that turning your carā€™s AC will cause extra fuel to be used."

"You should run your carā€™s AC for ten minutes in every couple of weeks"

Itā€™s negligible, you use more fuel having the windows down, if you read further the article agrees with what I said, seals dry out, the gas escapes and it cost a fortune to rectify, more than you save in fuel, put it on and leave it on, itā€™s cheaper in the long run :okay:
 
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Jody

Stubborn git
It says "if you do not use your AC in winter", which is back to my point that using it for 10 minutes every week or two negates that and keeps the system happy.

"Having windows open can cost you fuel, which pretty much everyone knows by now ā€“ but so can air conditioning, which can increase fuel consumption by 8-10%."

"If it comes to decision of air con vs open window, it is more economical to open your windows up to speeds of around 55mph"

https://www.airconco.com/news/does-in-car-air-conditioning-consume-fuel-if-so-how-much/
 
My cure for the economy question... ignoring the Ford in the background.

548D3596-25D9-4741-BED5-F17861377825.jpeg
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Of course it's not rubbish. Anything that adds load to your engine costs efficiency. Especially a compressor and it's associated electrics.

Running you AC every week or two does the same. It's only prolonged periods of inactivity that cause issues

https://www.coolcaraircon.co.uk/using-car-air-conditioning-all-year-round/#:~:text=You should run your car's,to move around the system.

"There is no doubt about the fact that turning your carā€™s AC will cause extra fuel to be used."

"You should run your carā€™s AC for ten minutes in every couple of weeks"

It doesn't use anything like 10%. Mine stays on.
 
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