Oil thread (vehicles)

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Accy cyclist

Legendary Member
An electrical smell is unlikely to originate in the oil or water, Accy, but could come from a hundred other places.
I'm now wondering if it's the air con. I didn't have it on at all when I got that odd, worrying smell. Yesterday I had it on, on quite warm to keep the windscreen clear as it was a rainy day and it didn't smell at all. Having said that, why would the air con/heater give off a smell if it's turned off? 🤔
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
This probably deserves it's own thread & not hijacking an oil thread, but what type of burning smell is it, plastic, rubber, oil, cloth, does the car have Air Con, when was the last time the pollen filter was changed?
 

palinurus

Velo, boulot, dodo
Location
Watford
Each is added at a precise dosage since too little or too much can be detrimental. The possible permutations and combinations of formulation you could come up with is almost endless, but the oil formulator's job is to come up with a combination that delivers all of the specification needs (usually for multiple specifications on the same product) at a cost that is acceptable.

Do you use mixture DoE (Design of Experiments*) in formulating? (I'm a formulator of solder products, and this is a particular professional interest- although recently most of my time has been taken up dealing with routine lab stuff and manufacturing problems)

*Such a clunky abbreviation.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
I'm now wondering if it's the air con. I didn't have it on at all when I got that odd, worrying smell. Yesterday I had it on, on quite warm to keep the windscreen clear as it was a rainy day and it didn't smell at all. Having said that, why would the air con/heater give off a smell if it's turned off? 🤔

Leave the air con on permanently. If you turn it off and only use occasionally, you'll get a musty smell. Thats from stagnent moisture in the system. Use it or lose it is the saying with air con. It keeps the system lubricated and stops smells. We even have it on permanently in the little Aygo.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
Running it permanently is just a waste of fuel

Once a week if you want to keep it functional and lubricated.
Is that the case these days, I thought they were more efficient, certainly in the old days you would hear the engine note change when you switched them on.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Running it permanently is just a waste of fuel

Once a week if you want to keep it functional and lubricated.

Makes the system smell not running regular and its very effective for demisting. I notice no fuel difference
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Is that the case these days, I thought they were more efficient, certainly in the old days you would hear the engine note change when you switched them on.

The only one we notice it on is the Aygo, as the compressor switches on with the fan, then off when the gas is cool enough, then back on. In hot weather it whizzes away all the time. The other two cars aren't noticeable as they have bigger engines, and I believe the clutch disengages on accelleration. The advantages with dehumidifying especially in damp weather, jumping in a car with warm damp people, are worth it.
 

tyred

Legendary Member
Location
Ireland
Running it permanently is just a waste of fuel

Once a week if you want to keep it functional and lubricated.

I experimented with this on my Skoda Fabia and couldn't detect any noticeable difference in either fuel consumption or performance. I left it on permanently and it meant the car was always nice and fresh and mist-free over the winter.

I've driven my Mum's Kia Soul diesel on quite a few occasions when the Fabia was in for repair and noticed no difference in fuel consumption with the air con on either. In fact, it seems the Kia automatically puts it on if you switch it to demist the windscreen which makes sense really.

I'm very happy with my Yaris but the only thing I do miss from the Skoda is that the Yaris doesn't have air con.

It was different years ago. The first car I came across with air con was a 1996 MKI Seat Toledo owned by my uncle and you tell the difference in engine note when you put on the air con so I'd imagine it probably did hammer fuel consumption.
 

Jody

Stubborn git
Makes the system smell not running regular and its very effective for demisting. I notice no fuel difference

Run it once a week to prevent smells building up

AC will increase fuel usage by up to 10% and the only way to accurately measure it will be in a controlled environment.

Turn it off and watch the revs go up slightly or turn it back on and watch it drop.
 
OP
OP
figbat

figbat

Slippery scientist
Do you use mixture DoE (Design of Experiments*) in formulating? (I'm a formulator of solder products, and this is a particular professional interest- although recently most of my time has been taken up dealing with routine lab stuff and manufacturing problems)

*Such a clunky abbreviation.

Sometimes, yes. Perhaps I should elaborate a bit on the development process.

There are four big players in the engine oil additive world: Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton and Oronite. Between then they provide most of the additives globally (and all of them have much wider business footprints too). For many engine oils, each additive supplier will offer a package of additives - a pre-mixed concentrate of all the main additives - to which you add the appropriate base oils to get the finished oil. In truth it is often much more complex than that, but it's a simplified view.

This means that many oil suppliers, particularly smaller ones with small resource pools, can take an additive package, blend it to the right viscosity using the right base oils and then have whatever approvals or performance that package offers - no need for expensive and lengthy in-house product development teams and programs. Larger oilcos will have a more complex portfolio of products, some of which may follow the same approach (maybe the lower-tier stuff), but some will be bespoke. Either developed in collaboration with the add-co (and therefore exclusive) or using an add-co package and then modifying it with additional ingredients to enhance or differentiate it. Or even developed from first principles using whatever prime additives serve the purpose.

When developing a formulation there are a number of factors to consider. Performance is important, as well as meeting whatever OEM and industry approvals are required to underpin the product being developed. There's also cost. And supply chain - location of additive and base oil suppliers vs your own blending facilities for example, and also location of your blending facilities compared to your sales markets. Not to mention the various health and safety requirements, REACH and other registrations and the HSSE consequences of using certain chemicals.

In terms of performance, there are some constraints in terms of what you can use. Lots of oil specifications include limits on various physical and chemical parameters - for example phosphorus (which poisons catalytic converters) or metallic elements (Zn, Ca, Mg etc) which form DPF/GPF-blocking oxides. There are also some additives that don't interact well with each other and can cause instability or degradation of performance. A lot of this is learned through experience and so when designing an experiment there are places you simply don't go because you know it's off-limits. But when trying to decide if one detergent type and one anti-wear type is better than another you might form an experimental matrix to screen for the best combinations. The further you go in the development process the more expensive and time-consuming it becomes though, so you have to use quick screening tests early on to allow you to spend the time and money on the most likely candidate(s). Given what I said up-thread about the number of options for additives, a full design matrix of all base oil and additive types and dosages across the whole formulation would be impossibly large. There are some modelling options that can help predict outcomes.
 
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