Obesity

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battered

Guru
It's a complicated issue. People are a product of their environment. In many places we have rearranged the environment to be as convenient as possible for car drivers, and openly hostile to everyone else. Out of town malls with car parks the size of towns, and of course every one of them has a drive-through McDonalds, a KFC, and a Costa, each laden with stuff designed to be as more-ish as possible so that you get a quick burst of endorphins after the tiring process of shopping and you grow to look forward to this.

Takeaways OTOH aren't necessarily bad if you're careful and restrict them (I refuse to get more than one a month), compared to say, ready meals or the twelvety varieties of sugar-laden bread in supermarkets. Stuff that gets consumed daily. It's clear that some people don't look at the food labels. If they did, and paid attention, the supermarkets wouldn't be stocking packaging covered with red marks.

Add to that the capacity and tendency for people to delude themselves into thinking that it's "just a little treat". Something you "treat" yourself to several times a day is not a treat, Senga.
It's a complicated issue. People are a product of their environment. In many places we have rearranged the environment to be as convenient as possible for car drivers, and openly hostile to everyone else. Out of town malls with car parks the size of towns, and of course every one of them has a drive-through McDonalds, a KFC, and a Costa, each laden with stuff designed to be as more-ish as possible so that you get a quick burst of endorphins after the tiring process of shopping and you grow to look forward to this.
"Hey, come this way, for a couple of quid you can have something that will make you feel great for a few minutes and pretty good for the next hour or two, and there's no hangover"
Blimey, where do I sign?

It's clear that some people don't look at the food labels. If they did, and paid attention, the supermarkets wouldn't be stocking packaging covered with red marks.
There have been any number of attempts to make the nutr info on the packaging easier to decipher. IMO the latest effort is less clear, not more, and I work in the industry. Nobody read it, and if they try they don't understand it.

Add to that the capacity and tendency for people to delude themselves into thinking that it's "just a little treat". Something you "treat" yourself to several times a day is not a treat, Senga.
This is the big one. I have a friend who has "just a little treat" of cheese and biscuits just before bed, every night. Just a treat. This person is obese, T2 diabetic as a result, has had bariatric surgery to mitigate her previous obesity, and has, by careful training, managed to maintain her ability to eat excessive amounts of food despite having a smaller stomach. Because she is a compulsive eater. It's not about the plate.
 
BMI doesn't work for anyone who is significantly athletic as it doesn't take into account the ratio of muscle mass to fat, whereby muscle mass is heavier than fat. Thus if you are like the BiL who runs miles every day and cycles hundreds of miles per week, you will have a high BMI despite barely having any fat on your body.

I agree but as a point of detail, I would have thought the typical distance runner physique would have a low BMI and the typical sprinter physique a high BMI?
 

battered

Guru
I would hope so.

My point (obviously ill explained) was that "the man/woman in the street" does not always appreciate this, and, BMI becomes discredited, giving people yet another excuse not to tackle their fitness/weight issues.
The psychology of the situation is that regardless what anyone understands about BMI or anything else, they will carry on finding "reasons" to excuse their behaviour. Take away "BMI is unreliable" and they will move to something else.
 

BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
The psychology of the situation is that regardless what anyone understands about BMI or anything else, they will carry on finding "reasons" to excuse their behaviour. Take away "BMI is unreliable" and they will move to something else.

Agreed, I clearly need English Language lessons, but, I think we are on the same page ;)
 

RoadRider400

Some bloke that likes cycling alone
Go and have a look at the people in a takeaway. They are the people who can least afford the extra cost. Same goes for smokers, 20 fags a day is £10, or £300 a month. Who has £300 a month to literally burn? Yet they do. It's not driven by affordability. It's about the psychological need for gratification. This is a bit more complex than taxation. Raising the price won't work unless you aim to tax it at 1000%, in which case you may as well make it illegal, at which point people will simply eat in. I can eat in a pub for the same price as a takeaway. I can get a supermarket pizza for less again. Obesity isn't about what's on your plate, it's about what's in your head.

Why would anybody 'literally burn' £300? That seems extremely wasteful.

I would rather spend it on takeaway.
 

battered

Guru
The other thing that's being talked about in nutrition circles is "obesogenic environment". Essentially this boils down to the fact that people will eat what is available. We all know that if you put an obese person in a cell and feed them 2000 calories a day, they will lose weight, regardless of the composition of those calories (within reason, people still need enough protein/vitamins/minerals etc to exist). Some diets at that calorie level will be reasonably satisfying, others will have the patient/prisoner desperately hungry. Either way they will lose weight, they can't not, because they only get what comes through the door. Anyone who says "calorie counting doesn't work" is talking out of their hat, it certainly does. Where it falls down is that it's difficult to maintain psychological focus and discipline to only eat the 2000 calories allowed, and none of us here have to live in a cell and eat only what comes through the hatch. Thankfully.

We also know that if you live on fast food, with its focus on easy gratification, you will almost invariably eat too much and gain weight. Partly this is because it feels good to eat the stuff, partly because it's easy, partly because you eat faster so you ignore the "you are full" messages, partly because the foods are designed to be appealing and easy to consume. Sweet follows savoury, of course you want that big sugary Coke, it will wash away the salty chips flavour. If these are your choices then the bowl of lentil soup followed by an apple is not going to get a look in.

In between the two is a non obesogenic environment where the food choices are healthy. Many years ago there was an experiment in a children's home where the children were free to eat what they liked in a buffet situation. The buffet was stocked with normal cooked foods, recognisable as to what they were. For the first few days it was chaos, some children were living on potatoes and peas, others on meat and milk and apple pie. However after a while they settled down to a reasonably balanced diet. The experimenters then shifted to a buffet stocked with highly processed food that was not easily recognisable, and the children lost their ability to select a balanced diet and instead sought out food that was gratifying. Pizza, anyone?

We can therefore imagine that if we present people with exclusively "healthy" foods, they will find it difficult to overeat. Big bowls of salad, grilled meat in small portions, all the chickpea soup you want. Off you go.

Anyone here can eat a portion of fish and chips followed by a pint of Coke, or a beer. However take the calories in the drink and replace them with water and those from canned tuna or steamed chicken breast. That's about 3 standard cans of tuna. Off you go. Finish it, after your F&C, fancy it? Not much, no. Another Coke? Go on then. Another 3 cans of tuna? I'll give you a tenner if you can. No chance.

However it doesn't work like this. In the real world you don't get faced with a choice of chickpea soup or lentil surprise, you get milk shakes and ice cream. Oh, just one.
 

battered

Guru
BMI doesn't work for anyone who is significantly athletic as it doesn't take into account the ratio of muscle mass to fat, whereby muscle mass is heavier than fat. Thus if you are like the BiL who runs miles every day and cycles hundreds of miles per week, you will have a high BMI despite barely having any fat on your body.
It does however work as a guide for most people, and most of us (I am guessing ) would like ours to be lower.

As mentioned previously it's just hard when that lovely M&S luxury chicken kiev is looking at you on a meal deal...
There are more athletes and professional sportsmen and women with a healthy BMI than those significantly over 25. I'll bet a substantial sum that your BiL comes in under 25, without even seeing him.

The "I'm heavy because I'm an athlete" copout is just that, a copout. BMI of 30? Unless you look like Mike Tyson when you take your shirt off, you're fat.
 

battered

Guru
It's a complicated issue. People are a product of their environment.
Their environment, their behaviour and their physiological type. In varying proportion.
 

dodgy

Guest
Point of order, I like a McDonalds breakfast or burger from time to time, I am also an enthusiastic amateur cook (seriously :okay: ).
They aren't mutually exclusive. I've fed up of people on the Internet telling me I'm wrong to enjoy it. I do, so get over it, I also ride 10,000 miles a year 🤷‍♂️
 

tyred

Legendary Member
Location
Ireland
I've always struggled with my weight. I am a lot lighter than I used to be but have put on weight this year.

There is definitely an emotional aspect for me because when I am stressed or feeling down I tend to over-eat.

Also, I really struggle with self control. I never (or at least very rarely) buy things like multipack bars of chocolate from the supermarket as I'd eat the lot.

At times I've worked on it and got to a point where my diet could be described as really healthy but over a period of time unhealthy foods creep back in again until I'm back to where I started.

I have no idea what the answers are. I know what a healthy diet should be but despite best endeavours I always fall of the wagon sooner or later and have to start again. I am always amazed by the way some of my work colleagues might have a big bag of sweets or a packet of biscuits on their desk and only dip into it occasionally because I couldn't do that. They'd all have to be eaten at one sitting.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
Not sure what this means unless i have missed something. What i see is a discussion of obesity and healthy eating. By the by if for whatever reason it gets moved to the nacas yard i won't see it.
Who said anything about NACA
 
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