Obesity

[battered]

Naming two minced beef recipes doesn't really say anything about processed food.

Try comparing refined white flour with a wholegrain equivalent, or juice/smoothie versus whole fruit.
The body can certainly tell the difference; the evidence is available in blood glucose measurements.

Although i think sedentary lifestyles (at work, home and play) are the biggest single factor causing the current obesity crisis.

You aren't comparing like with like. Yes, a smoothie or juice is not the same as fruit. A beef joint is not a burger. White flour is not wholegrain. This we know. But minced beef is minced beef, and the body can't tell the difference between my spag bol and one that came out of a factory to the same recipe. How can it? The unit operations, to use manufacturers ' speak, are identical, so you get the same result.

 

[KnittyNorah]

You aren't comparing like with like. Yes, a smoothie or juice is not the same as fruit. A beef joint is not a burger. White flour is not wholegrain. This we know. But minced beef is minced beef, and the body can't tell the difference between my spag bol and one that came out of a factory to the same recipe. How can it? The unit operations, to use manufacturers ' speak, are identical, so you get the same result.

But - if we take, for example, a beef lasagne, a home cook is unlikely to use horsemeat as the 'beef' ingredient - and a home cook is highly unlikely to use the same recipe in their spag bol as does the factory version. The factory version almost inevitably has a lot more ingredients - and the cheaper the item, the more ingredients, it seems. You can see the list of ingredients of such dishes on supermarket websites; as an example, I'd use none of the added wheys and caseins, I wouldn't be using both yeast extract AND salt, no added wheat gluten (only that which is already in the flour used to thicken a sauce although I tend to use arrowroot. potato flour or cornflour for that, if it's needed), no palm oil. I'd be using a low-fat mince and/or dry frying and removing excess fat. And yes, the body can 'tell the difference' between a high-fat mince and a low-fat one in its contribution to the whole.
In addition, the entire level and type of activity around a home-cooked meal is different to that around the 'pre-prepared' meal. For some people, this may be advantageous; for others, not so much or even disadvantageous.
So I see different types of meal preparation having very different 'end results' - even if the name of the meal is the same ...

 

[Blue Hills]

Maybe people are buying more groceries because they can. If you have to carry all your groceries home you don't overload the basket. Now we have home deliveries non-drivers can also enjoy the benefits of a large shopping trolley.

yep,- and pre-packaged processed stuff generally has more volume.
More shopping by bike I say - entirely practical for folk without young kids - if the kids are older, get them to pedal for their own stuff.

 

[battered]

But - if we take, for example, a beef lasagne, a home cook is unlikely to use horsemeat as the 'beef' ingredient - and a home cook is highly unlikely to use the same recipe in their spag bol as does the factory version. The factory version almost inevitably has a lot more ingredients - and the cheaper the item, the more ingredients, it seems. You can see the list of ingredients of such dishes on supermarket websites; as an example, I'd use none of the added wheys and caseins, I wouldn't be using both yeast extract AND salt, no added wheat gluten (only that which is already in the flour used to thicken a sauce although I tend to use arrowroot. potato flour or cornflour for that, if it's needed), no palm oil. I'd be using a low-fat mince and/or dry frying and removing excess fat. And yes, the body can 'tell the difference' between a high-fat mince and a low-fat one in its contribution to the whole.
In addition, the entire level and type of activity around a home-cooked meal is different to that around the 'pre-prepared' meal. For some people, this may be advantageous; for others, not so much or even disadvantageous.
So I see different types of meal preparation having very different 'end results' - even if the name of the meal is the same ...

Like the person above, you're not comparing like with like. Of course if you change the formulation the food changes, of course it has a different nutritional content. However this discussion started as "the nutrients in highly processed food are more available to the body than home cooked food, because of the processing", which is not true.
You're saying "I use nicer ingredients at home than the manufacturers", which is probably the case if you shop carefully, certainly for the cheaper end of the manufactured foods market. It's not for the premium end though, and I know, because I make the stuff. I see the beef that goes into a pie. What checks do you make on the raw material that your butcher uses in his mince?

 

[neil_merseyside]

You aren't comparing like with like. Yes, a smoothie or juice is not the same as fruit. A beef joint is not a burger. White flour is not wholegrain. This we know. But minced beef is minced beef, and the body can't tell the difference between my spag bol and one that came out of a factory to the same recipe. How can it? The unit operations, to use manufacturers ' speak, are identical, so you get the same result.

Minced beef is minced beef? What tosh, in a ready meal it is likely the cheapest nastiest cuts, or mechanically recovered/floor sweepings, but butchers minced beef is a whole lot better being from a single cut of meat, that you see being ground from the lump of meat you picked.
We had some lamb mince from a supermarket (Asda?) as a substitution and it was in the usual wiggly bits as 'normal' but those wiggles had meat particles the size of sand grains pressed together, whereas the supermarket standard mince had larger bits/strings (of admittedly unknown bits/type of meat) certainly not a reconstituted goo. We now use the mince from a butcher, or we make our own with the sausage maker/mincer we bought in fear of the factory processed stuff.
Ready meals can be good, but most are just hyper processed carp, with all that extra processing they change to something rather different.

 

[battered]

Minced beef is minced beef? What tosh, in a ready meal it is likely the cheapest nastiest cuts, or mechanically recovered/floor sweepings, but butchers minced beef is a whole lot better being from a single cut of meat, that you see being ground from the lump of meat you picked.
We had some lamb mince from a supermarket (Asda?) as a substitution and it was in the usual wiggly bits as 'normal' but those wiggles had meat particles the size of sand grains pressed together, whereas the supermarket standard mince had larger bits/strings (of admittedly unknown bits/type of meat) certainly not a reconstituted goo. We now use the mince from a butcher, or we make our own with the sausage maker/mincer we bought in fear of the factory processed stuff.
Ready meals can be good, but most are just hyper processed carp, with all that extra processing they change to something rather different.

The point I am making is that you have to compare like with like, see the post above. Minced beef *to a specification* is the same. Of course if you start with different raw materials you will get a different result. I'm addressing "all that extra processing they change to something rather different." which is not true.

 

[battered]

in a ready meal it is likely the cheapest nastiest cuts, or mechanically recovered/floor sweepings, but butchers minced beef is a whole lot better being from a single cut of meat, that you see being ground from the lump of meat you picked.

1. Mechanically recovered red meat is not legal post BSE. If you were better informed about meat you'd know this.
2. If you can watch your butcher making his mince, lucky you. If you don't, you have no means of knowing what's in it.
People distrust "food manufacturers" but trust their local butcher's shop. Almost invariably. They are convinced the manufacturers use floor sweepings and that the small shops can be trusted. I worked, briefly, for a wet fish processor, and left because the owner was...well, I'll leave it there. Some stuff went to the big retailers, who inspected the factories. Some stuff went to his brother and was sold in the local wet fish trade. His brother didn't do any inspections. Some fish on sale is honest, some not. I'll let you join the dots. If you want to carry on trusting local shops over and above the bigger retailers, be my guest.

 

[neil_merseyside]

1. Mechanically recovered red meat is not legal post BSE. If you were better informed about meat you'd know this.
2. If you can watch your butcher making his mince, lucky you. If you don't, you have no means of knowing what's in it.
People distrust "food manufacturers" but trust their local butcher's shop. Almost invariably. They are convinced the manufacturers use floor sweepings and that the small shops can be trusted. I worked, briefly, for a wet fish processor, and left because the owner was...well, I'll leave it there. Some stuff went to the big retailers, who inspected the factories. Some stuff went to his brother and was sold in the local wet fish trade. His brother didn't do any inspections. Some fish on sale is honest, some not. I'll let you join the dots. If you want to carry on trusting local shops over and above the bigger retailers, be my guest.

It's a great relief that mechanically recovered red meat was officially banned, I just hope it isn't still used, the horse-meat (as nice as it is) scandal proved beyond doubt that big companies don't do anywhere near the checking needed.
What about mechanically recovered white meat?

 

[annedonnelly]

yep,- and pre-packaged processed stuff generally has more volume.
More shopping by bike I say - entirely practical for folk without young kids - if the kids are older, get them to pedal for their own stuff.

Yep, once I'd chosen a family pack of Weetabix this morning I had to be careful not to get too much more else my panniers would've been overfull.

And I assume I can have a second breakfast after a 8 mile round trip shop.

 

[battered]

It's a great relief that mechanically recovered red meat was officially banned, I just hope it isn't still used, the horse-meat (as nice as it is) scandal proved beyond doubt that big companies don't do anywhere near the checking needed.
What about mechanically recovered white meat?

The horse meat scandal was the result of organised criminal gangs getting into the international meat business. Criminal gangs are rather good at breaking the law. Witness the drug trade. The fact that 9 years on there has been no repeat tells another tale about the controls in place. My house was broken into about that time. Does that mean the police do nothing about burglary, or that I do nothing about security? No, it means that crime happens.
MR poultry exists, it's used for things like canned meatballs. It's pretty revolting stuff, but it's safe to eat, if you want to.

 

[Blue Hills]

Yep, once I'd chosen a family pack of Weetabix this morning I had to be careful not to get too much more else my panniers would've been overfull.

And I assume I can have a second breakfast after a 8 mile round trip shop.

bigger panniers and scheduling of purchases.
I assume you didn't eat all of this package yourself in a single day.
Necessitating a trip every day for breakfast.
Obvs I don't know about your personal fitness but an 8 mile round trip is a nice bike-ride. Not rare for me to do that in London for a shop.
Weetabix is packaged of course. Try oats.
edit - looking upthread and seeing your "like" you were probably agreeing with me

 

[Reynard]

However this discussion started as "the nutrients in highly processed food are more available to the body than home cooked food, because of the processing", which is not true.

Erm... Not. This is just one article of many that a simple google search threw up. And I quote:

"The way that manufacturers process foods makes them very easy to chew and swallow.

Because much of the fiber is lost during processing, it takes less energy to eat and digest ultra-processed foods than whole or less processed foods.

As a result, it is easier to eat more of these products in shorter periods. In doing so, a person consumes more calories — and uses fewer in digestion — than they would if they had eaten whole foods instead.

This increases a person’s chances of taking in more calories than they use up, which can lead to unintentional weight gain."

Point #6 from this: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318630

Yes, it's American, but the gist is near enough the same. And is pretty well much the same what was mentioned on the BBC's "Eat Well For Less" when they did a comparison of ready made to home cooked versions of the same thing.

And this explains why you often end up with the munchies after eating a prepared meal. Less so when eating a home cooked one.

 

[neil_merseyside]

The horse meat scandal was the result of organised criminal gangs getting into the international meat business. Criminal gangs are rather good at breaking the law. Witness the drug trade. The fact that 9 years on there has been no repeat tells another tale about the controls in place. My house was broken into about that time. Does that mean the police do nothing about burglary, or that I do nothing about security? No, it means that crime happens.
MR poultry exists, it's used for things like canned meatballs. It's pretty revolting stuff, but it's safe to eat, if you want to.

So you never tested/test ingredients? Surely part of QC, scary you don't bother to check ever the major ingredients.
Security QC would be a visit from police crime prevention officer may well have highlighted your burglary risks.

 

[battered]

So you never tested/test ingredients? Surely part of QC, scary you don't bother to check ever the major ingredients.
Security QC would be a visit from police crime prevention officer may well have highlighted your burglary risks.

obviously we do. We have a whole raft of controls, testing is a tiny part of that.

 

[battered]

Erm... Not. This is just one article of many that a simple google search threw up. And I quote:

"The way that manufacturers process foods makes them very easy to chew and swallow.

Because much of the fiber is lost during processing, it takes less energy to eat and digest ultra-processed foods than whole or less processed foods.

As a result, it is easier to eat more of these products in shorter periods. In doing so, a person consumes more calories — and uses fewer in digestion — than they would if they had eaten whole foods instead.

This increases a person’s chances of taking in more calories than they use up, which can lead to unintentional weight gain."

Point #6 from this: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318630

Yes, it's American, but the gist is near enough the same. And is pretty well much the same what was mentioned on the BBC's "Eat Well For Less" when they did a comparison of ready made to home cooked versions of the same thing.

And this explains why you often end up with the munchies after eating a prepared meal. Less so when eating a home cooked one.

Yes, and it's about satiety and eating more, not ease of digestion. In a mixed diet, eating comparable meals, you can't make one easier to digest than another. Chew, sure. Digest, no. Now you can if you wish compare wheat grains to bread and get that result, but nobody suggests that a sack of wheat is a meal, or that it's comparable with bread.

By the same token a steak is probably easier to digest it it's turned into a hamburger, but then it's not a steak any more. I maintain, and I know, that minced beef turned into a spag bol by me is no harder to digest than a minced beef of identical meat composition turned into a burger, or a factory s pa gb bol. Which is where I came in.

Ease of cramming it down your throat is not to be confused with digestion. Nor is the amount that you eat before you've had enough.

Also, millions of years of evolution have made sure that we don't waste calories. If it goes down your throat, you're burning it. Steak and the same steak, minced, have identical calories. Think about it, is a successful alpha predator that goes and hunts to live going to let a calorie go to wast e?