Nottingham is tops!

[dellzeqq]

[/size][/font][/color]


Obviously there is some hyperbole in there, but is it not the case that cycling levels in Nottingham are indeed stagnant?

I don't think that the Campaign for Better Transport made a big thing about cycling in Nottingham - they got their first place for the tram and bus network.

Nottingham came top of the cities surveyed due to scoring well in the majority of the indicators measured. It ranked highly for factors such as bus patronage, satisfaction with bus services and low car use for the school run. As well as having an efficient bus service, the new expanding tram system is now used by 10 million passengers a year. Other positive moves include improving accessibility, routing buses on uncongested bus only roads and smart ticketing. Future plans include extending the tram systems and modernising the existing rail network.

 

[marinyork]

I'm not sure that's completely the picture, cycling would have mattered at least in terms of it getting the very top ranking overall or by how much. The appendix says

We ranked each city’s score for each indicator from 1 to 19. An aggregate score using these ranks was prepared
for groups of related indicators, or sections. We then used these ranks to create an overall city ranking.

Nottingham did come top in walking and cycling. It gives us the ranking rather than the score but assuming the 17 criteria were weighted equally (as it doesn't say otherwise) we have 5 for accessibility and planning, 8 for quality and uptake of public transport and 4 for walking and cycling. The highest ranking for walking and cycling would have have helped compensate for 6th place in accessibility and planning that Nottingham got (the latter being worth 1.25 as much as walking and cycling overall). London got 2nd, 2nd and 10th for each respective section and Brighton 5th, 3rd and 5th. Depending on how it was totted up, if just done on ranking points Nottingham could have lost the top overall ranking if it'd had a disasterous rating for walking and cycling rather than the top one. As public transport was worth around half of the marks Nottingham would have been up there in the top 2 or 3 but the top mark in cycling might well have clinched it for them.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

I don't think that the Campaign for Better Transport made a big thing about cycling in Nottingham - they got their first place for the tram and bus network.

Well, of course - I just think that as this is a cycling board, and that as (according to the Guardian article)

The green lobbying group judged 19 English cities by three criteria: accessibility and planning; quality and uptake of public transport; walking and cycling.

it is surely pertinent to point out that cycling provision in Nottingham is a bit crap, as reflected in the modal share figures, which are barely above 1%.

Is this a cycling friendly street?

Can you see kids cycling to school on this road? Or mums going shopping by bike here?

Or this street?

I mean, I'm quite happy to use these roads, but that's because I can keep up with traffic, and I have enough experience at negotiation of 3/4 lane one way systems, and enormous roundabouts.

Not many other people are prepared to do so, however - and that's why the modal share is piss-poor.

 

[iAmiAdam]

The pictures you've posted don't really help much, there is very good cycle parking in Nottingham, and it's not far from the first street.

The second image, there's not really many shops that are used by the masses around there, infact I've never had to go down that street to get to anywhere I needed to go in Nottingham.

I think cycling in Nottingham is very good tbh, it's the public transport that isn't great.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

The pictures you've posted don't really help much

To be honest, I just picked two arterial roads at random. But let's be a bit more scientific.

If people are going to be cycling about in Nottingham, they will probably be making journeys across the city. Take - for instance - going from north to south. It looks like you have to cross the railway at some point. There are a number of bridges that allow this -

Manvers Street - dual carriageway, no cycle lane at all.

London Road - three lanes one way, two the other. No cycle lane at all.

Wilford Road - two lanes one way, one the other. No cycle lane at all.

The only safe-ish looking road is Carrington Street, by the station. Still no cycle lane - but at least this road is single carriageway, and wide.

I think cycling in Nottingham is very good tbh

Why? If it is that good, why are only just over 1% of all journeys in Nottingham made by bike? I'd guess it's because to get about, you have to cycle on these kinds of roads I listed above, with no segregation from fast-flowing traffic. Presumably to get on and off these roads you will have to make lane changes across them, deal with people passing close to you, and so on.

The general public are (rightly or wrongly) terrified of cycling in busy traffic on multiple lane roads. They don't want to do it. That's why we see such a low modal share in Nottingham.

Or do you have another explanation?

 

[marinyork]

The pictures you've posted don't really help much, there is very good cycle parking in Nottingham, and it's not far from the first street.

The second image, there's not really many shops that are used by the masses around there, infact I've never had to go down that street to get to anywhere I needed to go in Nottingham.

I think cycling in Nottingham is very good tbh, it's the public transport that isn't great.

In what sense is cycle parking in Nottingham 'very good'? It's my experience that nearly all cities claim it is so regardless of any kind of objective criteria or comparison with other cities. Usually they are quite good for some criteria with others ignored and then there are a few that are absolutely appalling barely bothering at all.

For example my own city is woeful for cycle parking where 'everybody' wants to shop and park on the key shopping street and surrounding it. It's also very poor i.e. none on secure cycle parking because the Liberal Democrats vetoed it. It's really not bad at all once you look at the spread of cycle parking throughout the city centre, the universities aren't bad for parking (both near the city centre) and there a few clusters of cycle parking in cycling corridors near shopping centres, not bad but better than some other cities that claim to be very good. It's also better than some other cities for cycle parking installed at new residential and commercial developments (bad on big venues).

 

[marinyork]

Does anyone have the modal share for cycling for anything like all 19 cities? It does seem a bit odd that if indeed Nottingham is top it only has 1% modal share and it got powered to the top of the least car dependency ratings in large part because of walking and cycling (clearly stated criteria in the appendix).

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

Does anyone have the modal share for cycling for anything like all 19 cities?

I can't see the figures listed anywhere in the actual CBT document, here, which is a pity.
The actual modal share figure for Nottingham is 1.6%, which is from here.

Another quoted figure is 3.1% (here), but that is purely for commuting only, not journeys as a whole - this figure is naturally going to be higher.

 

[marinyork]

[/size][/font][/color]

I can't see the figures listed anywhere in the actual CBT document, here, which is a pity.

I did actually quote from that document which was why I was asking...

The report which you (didn't bother to read) refers to tempro for C4 which isn't any good as you have to register.

 

[iAmiAdam]

[/size][/font][/color]

To be honest, I just picked two arterial roads at random. But let's be a bit more scientific.

If people are going to be cycling about in Nottingham, they will probably be making journeys across the city. Take - for instance - going from north to south. It looks like you have to cross the railway at some point. There are a number of bridges that allow this -

Manvers Street - dual carriageway, no cycle lane at all.

London Road - three lanes one way, two the other. No cycle lane at all.

Wilford Road - two lanes one way, one the other. No cycle lane at all.

The only safe-ish looking road is Carrington Street, by the station. Still no cycle lane - but at least this road is single carriageway, and wide.

[/size][/font][/color]

Why? If it is that good, why are only just over 1% of all journeys in Nottingham made by bike? I'd guess it's because to get about, you have to cycle on these kinds of roads I listed above, with no segregation from fast-flowing traffic. Presumably to get on and off these roads you will have to make lane changes across them, deal with people passing close to you, and so on.

The general public are (rightly or wrongly) terrified of cycling in busy traffic on multiple lane roads. They don't want to do it. That's why we see such a low modal share in Nottingham.

Or do you have another explanation?

Right, I'll try and cover everything.

Most people I know make journeys into the city, as there isn't a huge amount of residential within the actual hustle and bustle of it all. Now, the buses are there, and there are bus lanes all the way into town, so cyclists use them and I see this all the time.

And my only answer to the journeys one is that Nottingham is actually fairly hilly, and a lot of people in Nottingham are bone idle. And as the OP article explains there are a lot of other ways to get into Nottingham, however crap I feel they may be, and so, many see it as pointless to get hot and sweaty if you can catch a bus for a few quid.

There is tons of cycle parking around, admittedly it might only be banks of railings put there etc. but hey ho, atleast you can wheel your bike around instead of having to park it in once place and then walk around.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

I did actually quote from that document which was why I was asking...

The report which you (didn't bother to read) refers to tempro for C4 which isn't any good as you have to register.

I did read it. That's how I know there aren't any modal share figures included in it! Sorry if I made it seem as if I was ignoring what you'd written.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

And my only answer to the journeys one is that Nottingham is actually fairly hilly, and a lot of people in Nottingham are bone idle.

That's the reason for a modal share between 1-2%? The idleness of the population?

 

[iAmiAdam]

Tbh, yes, There's a decent enough bus service that no one wants to get sweaty to get into town any more, it's more convenient for them to catch a bus or a tram or even drive. Bone idleness.

 

[marinyork]

I did read it. That's how I know there aren't any modal share figures included in it! Sorry if I made it seem as if I was ignoring what you'd written.

Sorry, it's fine it's just me. I'm going to see if I can dig anything else up.

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

I think living in Nottingham for a year was one of the reasons my cycling dwindled years ago after initialy cycling everywhere

The roads were not at all cycle-friendly anywhere outside a run from off Gregory Boulevard over the hill to Nottingham Trent.

I found that some of the annoying hills (the long, steeper-than-they-look inclines) were usually fast dual carriageways with narrow lanes, rush hour up Maid Marian approaching roundabouts is not fun...or at least it wasn't 17 years ago

However I can understand why it has got where it has on the figure of "anything but the car" - I never had any trouble getting anywhere with public transport - in fact I used to deliberately shop at Safeway out towards Gamston/West Bridgeford, right the other side of town to Forest Fields as it was a nice bus ride on one of the little single-deckers, used to get off a bit before the store and take my housemate's dog for a walk, and it was never a long wait for the bus back which stopped on Berridge Road, about 100 yards from home.

Public transport was never a bar to me getting a job out in Long Eaton either

So IMO (though slightly out of date I know, pre-tram days and all) cycling was not well catered for at all but public transport was quite good.