Nottingham is tops!

[Bollo]

I wouldn't like to cycle in Nottingham ...

Correct me if I'm wrong here Cranky, but you don't like cycling anywhere!

 

[summerdays]

Bristol's bus fare for a 2.5 mile (return) journey is about £3.70 ish (can't remember exactly) and the single isn't much cheaper.

 

[John the Monkey]

Anyone read "Crap Cycling and Walking in Waltham Forest"?

some interesting assertions about the organisation producing this report;

In the first place The Campaign for Better Transport (CBT - formerly known as Transport 2000) is not a ‘green’ lobbying group. It exists to promote buses, trains and trams (and there is nothing remotely ‘green’ about buses). It has strong links both to businesses (Eurostar, Stagecoach and Arriva among others) and to trade unions (including ASLEF, the RMT, Unison and Unite-Amicus) and receives funding from them.

Edited to include a link to the piece;
http://crapwalthamforest.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-campaign-for-better-transport-is-no.html

 

[summerdays]

If that's the case then which city(s) would we argue were the best/worst for their lack of dependence on the car (including Scotland/Wales and NI).

 

[John the Monkey]

If that's the case then which city(s) would we argue were the best/worst for their lack of dependence on the car (including Scotland/Wales and NI).

Dunno, tbh. Being "best" in Britian is hardly a huge accolade, given the utter primacy of motor transport in most of our cities.

 

[summerdays]

Whilst I agree, I do sometimes think we need to celebrate our successes more and see which cities in the UK we can learn from. Its all very depressing when we try to compare ourselves to Europe who started years ago with a different attitude, and I'm sure there have been improvements in the last few years.

 

[John the Monkey]

Whilst I agree, I do sometimes think we need to celebrate our successes more and see which cities in the UK we can learn from. Its all very depressing when we try to compare ourselves to Europe who started years ago with a different attitude, and I'm sure there have been improvements in the last few years.

I see what you're saying - I do think there has to be some degree of realism though - even our best falls incredibly short of how good things could be. An entirely uncritical "this is great" runs the risk of policy makers & planners thinking there's nothing else to do.

 

[theclaud]

Anyone read "Crap Cycling and Walking in Waltham Forest"?

some interesting assertions about the organisation producing this report;



Edited to include a link to the piece;
http://crapwalthamfo...port-is-no.html

That's interesting reading, John, but it need to be balanced by the fact that the "Crap Cycling" blog has its own segregationist axe to grind :

Complete segregation of cyclists from motorists is what is actually required to make the masses feel that cycling is safe. It's also required to make cycling efficient and safe

The CBT doesn’t have a clue about cycling, as its utterly ludicrous claims about Nottingham reveal. Nottingham is a car-sodden cycling-hostile city and cycling has been stagnating there for many years (ably assisted by the local collaborationist vehicular cycling sect, offering yet more proof for the simple thesis that among the biggest obstacles to mass cycling in Britain are self-appointed ‘cycling campaigners’).

 

[John the Monkey]

That's interesting reading, John, but it need to be balanced by the fact that the "Crap Cycling" blog has its own segregationist axe to grind :

Complete segregation of cyclists from motorists is what is actually required to make the masses feel that cycling is safe. It's also required to make cycling efficient and safe

The CBT doesn’t have a clue about cycling, as its utterly ludicrous claims about Nottingham reveal. Nottingham is a car-sodden cycling-hostile city and cycling has been stagnating there for many years (ably assisted by the local collaborationist vehicular cycling sect, offering yet more proof for the simple thesis that among the biggest obstacles to mass cycling in Britain are self-appointed ‘cycling campaigners’).

Yep, and I do disagree with him on that (the heirarchy of provision model with proper enforcement of traffic law would be my favoured future - I don't believe segregation everywhere is realistic for the UK).

 

[CotterPin]

It's no surprise about MK - it was built around the car, with everything - housing, businesses - deliberately spread out.

I have to say, though, having always been a cycle-path sceptic, I've discovered the redways this summer and have found the bits I've used quite useful - pleasant even. I live about 10 miles from the place but often pass through its south-western suburbs on a pootle, and sailing along the wide, empty path parallel to the A421 is a treat, swooping under the roundabouts unhindered. OK, they don't always go the way I want to go, and some of the newer ones through residential streets are a pain with their typical stops and starts, but given that most of the main roads are 60/70mph with frequent roundabouts and traffic lights, it's nice to have an alternative.

I should add that I'm almost exclusively a country-lane cyclist and usually avoid encroaching on urban areas at all cost (I used to live and cycle in London in the early 90s and was glad to get away).

I had to visit a client in MK recently and thought I would take the bike on the train and follow the redways to his office. It was a singularly frustrating experience. My destination would be signed and then vanish from the signs leaving me to figure out for myself which path to take. Imagine trying to drive to Doncaster and suddenly finding the signs for Doncaster disappearing at crucial junctions and you find yourself having to double back on yourself. The redways look good for the kind of cycling you use them for but they don't work terribly well as a transportation system. A similar situation occurs in Stevenage.

 

[dellzeqq]

Anyone read "Crap Cycling and Walking in Waltham Forest"?

yes, and it's the product of embittered and twisted minds.

 

[mcr]

I had to visit a client in MK recently and thought I would take the bike on the train and follow the redways to his office. It was a singularly frustrating experience. My destination would be signed and then vanish from the signs leaving me to figure out for myself which path to take. Imagine trying to drive to Doncaster and suddenly finding the signs for Doncaster disappearing at crucial junctions and you find yourself having to double back on yourself. The redways look good for the kind of cycling you use them for but they don't work terribly well as a transportation system. A similar situation occurs in Stevenage.

I quite agree about the signage - not least because when it does appear intermittently it only directs you between meaningless (to an outsider) suburb names - ie since it really is a spider's web of a network, you have to know where you're going. There's a decent map available online as a pdf.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

The CBT doesn’t have a clue about cycling, as its utterly ludicrous claims about Nottingham reveal. Nottingham is a car-sodden cycling-hostile city and cycling has been stagnating there for many years (ably assisted by the local collaborationist vehicular cycling sect, offering yet more proof for the simple thesis that among the biggest obstacles to mass cycling in Britain are self-appointed ‘cycling campaigners’).

Obviously there is some hyperbole in there, but is it not the case that cycling levels in Nottingham are indeed stagnant?

 

[John the Monkey]

yes, and it's the product of embittered and twisted minds.

As posted earlier, I disagree with the author on cycling in traffic, and would probably be accounted a member of the "vehicular cycling sect".

That said, a lot of what he says about British cycling infrastructure, and the lip service cycling receives from local & national government rings true out here in the provinces.

 

[As Easy As Riding A Bike]

That said, a lot of what he says about British cycling infrastructure, and the lip service cycling receives from local & national government rings true out here in the provinces.

+1. And the fact it is written in such a bitter and twisted style makes it all the more enjoyable!