Non members continuing to ride with club

[Blue Hills]

Stop riding and stand at the side of the road until he gets bored?

Visions of a high noon standoff a damp tod with some blasting Morricone.
Suppose the rider is taking the p but some club subs do strike me as odd/high. Memory may be faulty but i know a northern club (am there sometimes) which has a memb fee pushing £30. Never been sure where it goes. Meetings can be held in a pub.
I used to lead lots of free rides for a london group - all were welcomed.

 

[Big T]

Mjr, I just followed your previously posted link to the BC website, and dug a bit further:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/membership/BEST_PRACTICE_GUIDELINES.pdf

There are several best practice guidelines but the one I posted is the one for road rides. They are a bit more involved for off-road sessions as you generally have more control over the environment and location.

No, it does say anything about preventing non-members riding with the group, as far as I can see. This is a problem we have in my club. 2 well off people who insist on turning up most weeks to ride with us, but won’t pay the £15 to join the club. One is a senior civil servant earning at least £70,000 per year. The other is a self employed carpenter who has just spent £5000 on a brand new Trek road bike, so they can both afford it.

 

[DCLane]

This is a problem we have in my club. 2 well off people who insist on turning up most weeks to ride with us, but won’t pay the £15 to join the club. One is a senior civil servant earning at least £70,000 per year. The other is a self employed carpenter who has just spent £5000 on a brand new Trek road bike, so they can both afford it.

The ride leader should be speaking with them.

My club's issued an official message to ex-members who've not renewed and included a couple of turn-up'ers that they're no longer members and therefore not covered on the club insurance so please don't come to a group ride. If they do then the rider leader has permission to ask them to leave. It seems to have worked.

Basically your two non-joiners are being a pain. And they know they are.

 

[Big T]

We’ve tried this, but it is water off a ducks back to them. They may disappear for a few weeks but they will be back. There may be others whose membership has lapsed but these two are quite upfront and even proud of being non-paying participants. We even poke fun at them at the cafe, but they just don’t seem to care.

 

[PaulSB]

Mjr, I just followed your previously posted link to the BC website, and dug a bit further:

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/membership/BEST_PRACTICE_GUIDELINES.pdf

There are several best practice guidelines but the one I posted is the one for road rides. They are a bit more involved for off-road sessions as you generally have more control over the environment and location.

No, it does say anything about preventing non-members riding with the group, as far as I can see. This is a problem we have in my club. 2 well off people who insist on turning up most weeks to ride with us, but won’t pay the £15 to join the club. One is a senior civil servant earning at least £70,000 per year. The other is a self employed carpenter who has just spent £5000 on a brand new Trek road bike, so they can both afford it.

I'm a club secretary and I'm unsure the Best Practice Guidelines are relevant. Following BPG is advised to ensure the club insurance is valid. My club is affiliated to BC and so benefits from BC Club Insurance and I'm presuming yours is also affiliated. The relevant point regarding members who refuse to renew is they are not covered by the BC Club Insurance and there is a question as to whether or not the club, its' officials, rider leaders are covered if ex-members persist in riding with the group. There is of course nothing one can do to stop these individuals occupying the same road space, it's a free country. I think the solution, which isn't a pleasant one, is to tell them clearly in front of witnesses they are not allowed to participate in the ride/activity as they are not club members due to not paying their subs. If they chose to ride in the group in the event of an incident leading to a claim you have witnesses to prove these ex-members were warned off.

I can't provide the link as it's not public but here is the relevant info from the BC insurance Q&A. Note the word "invited"

Our club has several people who regularly go on our club run but have not joined our club. Are they covered by the club insurance as invitees?
No. Only those who are invited to take part in club activities with a genuine view to joining the club and who are not already covered by any other insurance are covered by the club’s insurance. A ‘genuine view to joining’ means they may attend one or two club activities before joining the club.


Who is covered by the club insurance?

• the club;
• officials of the club who are acting on the club’s specific instructions; and
• individuals (non-club members) who have been invited to participate in club activities as invitees with a view to joining the club and are not already covered by any other insurance.

At committee level we have a discussion going on about the requirement to use a helmet. BPG says all riders must wear helmets. Everyone in our club does but our own club guidelines only advise it rather than require it.

 

[Big T]

paul sB - I note in your reply

Who is covered by the club insurance?

• the club;
• officials of the club who are acting on the club’s specific instructions; and
• individuals (non-club members) who have been invited to participate in club activities as invitees with a view to joining the club and are not already covered by any other insurance.

So it looks as though ordinary club members (who aren’t officials) on a ride, aren’t covered by the insurance anyway? So no difference between them and non-members, neither are covered by BCs club insurance.

I’m also a club secretary of a BC affiliated club (and a ride leader) so this is of great interest to me.

 

[PaulSB]

@Big T as a club sec I would expect you have access to the BC Club management tool? If so if you go to this area you should be able to find all the relevant information re BC Club Insurance in the Q&A.

It's always difficult to word this accurately. Individual club members are not personally covered by the club insurance and should have their own insurance cover which covers them as an individual - for example the cover which comes as part of having an individual BC membership.

In regard to this topic with regard to members bring covered or not I'm talking about the club. In this sense if a paid up member or invited person creates an incident or in some way is involved in an incident which leads to action being taken against the club or activity organiser (ride leader) then the insurance covers the actions of that member and protects the club and leader. In this circumstance it does not protect the individual who caused or created the incident.

If ex members are riding on a club ride they are not covered in the sense if they cause an incident which leads to action against the club or leader the cover would be invalid.

You should not let these people ride with you without publicsly warning them off. To do so risks invalidating the BC cover for the club and ride leaders

 

[Big T]

I’ve looked at the Q&A and can’t see anything that backs up what you have said. I.e. that the clubs insurance would be invalid if you let non-members ride with the club. I can’t see how warning them off makes any difference.

perhaps the answer is to ask BC themselves.

 

[Randomnerd]

Timed and dated video recording of their next appearance. Capture telling them they're not in your club. You're covered for insurance. Beyond organising a knee-capping, there's not much more you can do to prevent them riding the roads. Maybe you could all have a whip-round and buy them memberships for Christmas, to shame them?

 

[PaulSB]

I’ve looked at the Q&A and can’t see anything that backs up what you have said. I.e. that the clubs insurance would be invalid if you let non-members ride with the club. I can’t see how warning them off makes any difference.

perhaps the answer is to ask BC themselves.

Please don't feel I'm trying to prove a point, far from it merely trying to answer the question and contribute to the thread. I feel the Q&A clearly states what and who is covered and therefore by allowing non-members to ride with the club there is a risk the insurance could be invalid. This would be especially so if a non-member or ex-member, other than an invitee as defined by BC, caused an incident which resulted in action against the club or an activity organiser. It is by exclusion that it becomes clear the ex-members you describe are not covered - a bit like car insurance where there is usually a statement of what is covered and therefore by exclusion every other eventuality is not covered. Every club I have known has a "five rides" rule and then one must join, this I feel is to comply with BC cover or lack of it.

Are individuals participating in club activities insured by the club’s insurance?
No. All individual participants are strongly advised to become a Race Gold, Race Silver or Ride member of British Cycling which provides the benefit of individual third party (public) liability insurance. Contingent insurance cover is, however, provided to invitees who have been invited to participate in club activities with a genuine view to joining the club and are not already covered by any other insurance.



Who is covered?
1 The club against claims brought by non-members and invitees.
2 Officials of the club who act on the club's specific instructions during their term of office, against claims, as follows:
(a) Actions brought by non-members who have been invited (prior to possible membership) to take part in the Club's activities, for example, club runs, social activities etc., for injuries sustained and damage to third party property, sustained during participation.


I should add as a club we have had to deal with this very issue. I sympathise as it is very difficult especially when a ride leader may simply being doing this to help out and the non paying member turns up. The ride leader can hardly be expected to know the guy has not paid, the consequences of this or to call him out. One instance we had the non-payer turned up on a brand new bike the same week he bounced a £15 cheque on us!!!! Following that he was given a written warning to stay away which he did for 18 months. He then rejoined, paid his subs and no one has ever mentioned the previous issue.