Non members continuing to ride with club

[cyberknight]

Interesting discussion about club insurance,I am pushing for mine to start having a membership for these reasons and currently awaiting for the committee to decide.I think ride leaders should be on the committee personally but that's another story.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I think there are some unreasonably reasonable people in here.

You pay subs to our local village bike club. For the subs the rides are organised. Someone usually provide coffee and cake or the occasional BBQ. If you don't pay the subs, just because you dont want to. After a couple of polite hints you would be told you are not welcome.

I don't understand the mentality that that you expect something for nothing when everyone pays for it.

I think a lot depends on affordability.

Using a non-cycling analogy we have a couple of community facilities in the village that need maintaining and are used by everyone. On a good day we'll get around 50% of the village contributing whenever funds are needed.

There are a couple of families who we know are strapped for cash so they get an automatic bye.

The other non-contributors we just grin & bear it as, unfortunately, that's what some people are like and it's pointless getting het up about it.

On the other hand if they ever need any collective help to do something they do seem to get very few volunteers to assist them.

 

[Venod]

Interesting discussion about club insurance,I am pushing for mine to start having a membership for these reasons

The insurance caused problems in my old club, they ran a Facebook page to arrange rides etc, the club ran Saturday club rides for different abilities different courses on a four week rotation, not everybody liked doing the same courses on a regular basis, so some members also posted alternative rides on the Facebook page, non members often rode these much better alternatives but because they were posted on the clubs Facebook page the powers that be said that only club members should ride, they cited some insurance problem for this decision, they stopped the posting of the alternative rides, result, a lot of members left and now rides are still organised through Facebook and Strava as a bunch of mates going for a ride, without all the politics of a club, a much better scenario IMO.

 

[straas]

But why do it? Include yourself in a club but refuse to contribute to it?

 

[straas]

Again, how exactly are you going to make anyone ride solo?

You couldn't force someone, in the same way you couldn't stop someone joining your table in the pub. It'd just be a bit odd.

 

[pawl]

When I first started cycling I belonged to the local CTC section.On odd occasion a few of us would join the local racing clubs runs.We were always welcome as the club new they could rely on us to provide marshals for their open events and provide members to assist the after event refreshments.

We were always welcome at the end of season dinner. Perhaps there is more of a division between the social and more sporting side

 

[steveindenmark]

I think a lot depends on affordability.

Using a non-cycling analogy we have a couple of community facilities in the village that need maintaining and are used by everyone. On a good day we'll get around 50% of the village contributing whenever funds are needed.

There are a couple of families who we know are strapped for cash so they get an automatic bye.

The other non-contributors we just grin & bear it as, unfortunately, that's what some people are like and it's pointless getting het up about it.

On the other hand if they ever need any collective help to do something they do seem to get very few volunteers to assist them.

This is not about affordability. He could afford it. He just did not want to pay.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

This is not about affordability. He could afford it. He just did not want to pay.

As per my post.

PS: my post was not a dig at you it just portrays a similar set of circumstances.

 

[PaulSB]

Interesting discussion about club insurance,I am pushing for mine to start having a membership for these reasons and currently awaiting for the committee to decide.I think ride leaders should be on the committee personally but that's another story.

Your post states you have ride leaders in which case you absolutely must have insurance to cover them in the event of an incident. I am not a legal eagle but this is my understanding of the situation.

If a bunch of friends meet at a certain time, decide on a cafe and ride there together no one individual is in a position of responsibility. Should something go wrong there is no comeback on an individual.

If a ride leader creates a route, choses a cafe, sets a date, time and meet point that person has created an event and invited others to attend. The individual may actually lead the ride by sitting on the front for the entire ride.

Under these circumstances the ride leader has become responsible for the safe running of the ride. If something goes wrong the leader is liable to third party claims. This is where club insurance comes in to play - to cover the leader and club.

We get our cover by virtue of being affiliated to British Cycling. We get other benefits as well, in particular membership management.

On the question of ride leaders as committee members. My club has a ride secretary who represents the leaders at committee meetings.

 

[PaulSB]

The insurance caused problems in my old club, they ran a Facebook page to arrange rides etc, the club ran Saturday club rides for different abilities different courses on a four week rotation, not everybody liked doing the same courses on a regular basis, so some members also posted alternative rides on the Facebook page, non members often rode these much better alternatives but because they were posted on the clubs Facebook page the powers that be said that only club members should ride, they cited some insurance problem for this decision, they stopped the posting of the alternative rides, result, a lot of members left and now rides are still organised through Facebook and Strava as a bunch of mates going for a ride, without all the politics of a club, a much better scenario IMO.

The alternative rides issue is one my club had to address 3-4 years ago. Our chosen solution was members should not organise or advertise alternative rides which clash with official club rides.

The outcome is we have a healthy balance of rides, both official and alternative, which take place 7 days a week with start times ranging from 5.00am to 9.30am plus two evening sessions starting at 6.15. There are no clashes but lots of opportunities to ride.

The downside is some official rides attract small numbers but on the upside we have members able to chose from and riding a significant number of routes every week.

 

[mjr]

If a ride leader creates a route, choses a cafe, sets a date, time and meet point that person has created an event and invited others to attend. The individual may actually lead the ride by sitting on the front for the entire ride.

Under these circumstances the ride leader has become responsible for the safe running of the ride. If something goes wrong the leader is liable to third party claims. This is where club insurance comes in to play - to cover the leader and club.

I think that's basically it. It's also worth remembering that if a ride is not led then it must really be not led. Sitting on the front all ride and dictating pacing and stops and so on will make it seem more like a led ride, but so would turning up at the start point and pulling rank somehow to follow a route suggested beforehand over the objections of some. Shepherding or snaking across junctions will make it seem more like a led ride. And so on. Then if an incident occurs and a claim goes in, I expect the courts would consider it a led ride and the leader may also be liable for, say, saying "clear" when it was not.

We get our cover by virtue of being affiliated to British Cycling. We get other benefits as well, in particular membership management.

British Cycling useful documents: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/clubs/article/20140530-Useful-Documents-for-clubs-0

Cycling UK handbook: https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/def...fo/cycling_uk_ride_leader_handbook_2016_0.pdf

I leave it as an exercise for readers to see if they can tell if their clubs' so-called club rides actually follow the requirements of their affiliating organisation, especially the detail required for risk assessments and rider briefing, but I think most of you will be disappointed.

 

[PaulSB]

I think that's basically it. It's also worth remembering that if a ride is not led then it must really be not led. Sitting on the front all ride and dictating pacing and stops and so on will make it seem more like a led ride, but so would turning up at the start point and pulling rank somehow to follow a route suggested beforehand over the objections of some. Shepherding or snaking across junctions will make it seem more like a led ride. And so on. Then if an incident occurs and a claim goes in, I expect the courts would consider it a led ride and the leader may also be liable for, say, saying "clear" when it was not.


British Cycling useful documents: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/clubs/article/20140530-Useful-Documents-for-clubs-0

Cycling UK handbook: https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/def...fo/cycling_uk_ride_leader_handbook_2016_0.pdf

I leave it as an exercise for readers to see if they can tell if their clubs' so-called club rides actually follow the requirements of their affiliating organisation, especially the detail required for risk assessments and rider briefing, but I think most of you will be disappointed.

I'm pleased to say my club complies with all the BC guidelines for a club style ride on the public highway. I suppose we could have a couple of grey areas.

Our rides are posted as Facebook Events. We have a standard template on FB and a website statement informing members the equipment they must carry on a ride to deal with emergencies. It's not announced at the start of each ride.

Two years ago I issued everyone with a foil survival blanket. I doubt they still, if ever, carry them. I still carry one and have needed it on two occasions.

Although it's not mentioned in the BC guidelines emergency contact details are an essential item and sadly one we haven't been able to solve.

 

[cyberknight]

its a led ride i plan route , pace and stops and is advertised via our facebook event and whatsapp pages

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Takes a lot of folk in my club upwards of 5-6 months to actually join every year, they're obviously not members of Cycling Ireland either so no insurance etc. I rarely join runs but am quite picky as to who I invite out on any I do.

Massive gripe I have yet it's let slip.. Probably until the point where there's a mass/expensive smash and the committee have to act

 

[PaulSB]

its a led ride i plan route , pace and stops and is advertised via our facebook event and whatsapp pages

My view is this requires insurance to cover you, the club and possibly third party liability.