Next new question - shortening a bike

[LewisLondon]

Think we've established that flipping the stem will bring the hoods no closer to the rider. Replace stem with a shorter one.

Done! 60mm stem installed last night (and flipped) rather than the downward pointing 100mm stem that was on there

Only if you deliberately put your weight on your hands. Moving the saddle forwards allows the rider to bear more weight with the saddle and commensurately less through the arms/wrists/hands. Think about where the one plus two points of contact (PoC) are and how the movement of the saddle/rider's 'seat' moves the rider's CoG relative to those PoC.
This is the complement to what I said yesterday:

Saddle moved forward, not that much, but as much as I could.

Next step: get her to test it. Then probably pick up the seat post and get that done.

 

[e-rider]

Done! 60mm stem installed last night (and flipped) rather than the downward pointing 100mm stem that was on there

Saddle moved forward, not that much, but as much as I could.

Next step: get her to test it. Then probably pick up the seat post and get that done.

you can't move the saddle forward in an attempt to shorten the reach. Moving the saddle forward will put more weight on the arms. The saddle position needs to be set in the correct position and then left well alone. Shortening the stem is the main option. Make it too short and you will upset the ride characteristics of the bike though.

 

[Milkfloat]

Think we've established that flipping the stem will bring the hoods no closer to the rider. Replace stem with a shorter one.

When did 'we' establish this? Flipping the stem means the the top of the stem is now closer to the riders shoulders (making one side of a triangle shorter). This means although the effective top tube length has not decreased the riders shoulders are closer to the bars. This means that the rider is not putting so much pressure on their hands, which is what the complaint is.

 

[Ajax Bay]

You're right

you can't move the saddle forward in an attempt to shorten the reach

The ‘reach’ of a frame is defined as the horizontal distance from a vertical line up from the bottom bracket and a further vertical line from the centre of the top of the head tube. For a given frame it cannot be altered. I was erroneously using 'reach' to describe the distance between a rider's shoulder (acromion) and heel of hand with a 15 degree flex at the elbow, determined by a rider's anatomy. A comfortable riding position will determine where the rider can place their shoulder and it's positional relationship with the rider's seat.

Moving the saddle forward will put more weight on the arms.

Only if you deliberately put your weight on your hands. Moving the saddle forwards allows the rider to bear more weight with the saddle and commensurately less through the arms/wrists/hands. Think about where the one plus two points of contact (PoC) are and how the movement of the saddle/rider's 'seat' moves the rider's CoG relative to those PoC.

For a temporary fix (assume you have read thread) on this frame, moving the saddle forward is worth it against the downside of a probably (again remember temporary) less optimal position for the legs/pedaling. But as @User says, as yet: 'we do not know [the correct position]'. @LewisLondon has installed a 60mm stem. This will be fine for bike handling.

Good luck to the OP's gf - let's hope she warms to the opportunity.

 

[Kajjal]

Saddle position and height is to get the legs in the right position, not to adjust reach. The correct saddle position along with the prefered bar position will allow the rider to lean into the bike with slightly bent arms and little pressure on the hands. On my bike due to my prefered setup i can ride on the drops, hoods or bar for long periods without numb or painful hands.

To see what difference moving spacers, flipping the stem or buying a different stem check online stem calculators. Another option is shorter reach and drop bars.

 

[e-rider]

Only if you deliberately put your weight on your hands. Moving the saddle forwards allows the rider to bear more weight with the saddle and commensurately less through the arms/wrists/hands. Think about where the one plus two points of contact (PoC) are and how the movement of the saddle/rider's 'seat' moves the rider's CoG relative to those PoC.

That is not correct. the further forward the saddle goes, the more weight is put through the arms/wrists and hands.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Please could you explain why, for a given rider of a set core strength,

the further forward the saddle goes, the more weight is put through the arms/wrists and hands

(ie the mechanics of it)? Perhaps you could relate this to the OP.

 

[PpPete]

The theory is that with saddle more forward the c.o.g. of the rider moves forward w.r.t. the pedals. To maintain static equilibrium this more weight has to go through the forwardmost contact point.
But it is a great deal more complicated than that. For a start it isn't a static system.
And moving saddle towards the bars will tend to change angle of torso - making it more upright, and minimising the c.o.g. change

Things like core strength of the rider have a much bigger part to play (in the amount of weight going through hands) than small adjustments to the saddle, and 5 minutes worth of targeted exercises a day can make a significant different to that.

The most obvious effect (to the rider) of putting saddle forward is being able to get more power down through the pedals.

By all means put the saddle forward - you won't damage her or the bike.

 

[cyberknight]

That is not correct. the further forward the saddle goes, the more weight is put through the arms/wrists and hands.

Here is an interesting read
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/se at-set-back-for-road-bikes/

I used to have my saddle to far forward for the same reasons the OP wants too,im 5 foot 7 and use a 54 bike for commuting and I used to get bad shoulder and tingli g hands because I was to far forward. Getting the saddle setback right with an 80mm stem sorted me out.

 

[Milkfloat]

Please could you explain why, for a given rider of a set core strength,

(ie the mechanics of it)? Perhaps you could relate this to the OP.

Did you look at the link I posted?

 

[Ajax Bay]

Thank you @Milkfloat (I did), @e-rider and @cyberknight (very good link). Bit tricky if the bar's still a stretch when a shorter stem's been fitted and the positive angle option used. I think @PpPete makes some interesting and useful points about the dynamic nature of the system.

 

[Milkfloat]

Thank you @Milkfloat (I did), @e-rider and @cyberknight (very good link). Bit tricky if the bar's still a stretch when a shorter stem's been fitted and the positive angle option used. I think @PpPete makes some interesting and useful points about the dynamic nature of the system.

I agree that when the stem is positive and as short as you can go, there is not too much you can do if the frame is simply too big. Moving the saddle around (don't forget that you also need to go up or down to compensate) may help short term but certainly won't help long term. Sore hands could be down to many things, including arms being forced straight, not being used to a road position and even hood placement. Extra padded gloves may also be a short term fix.

 

[themosquitoking]

Here is an interesting read
https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/se at-set-back-for-road-bikes/

I used to have my saddle to far forward for the same reasons the OP wants too,im 5 foot 7 and use a 54 bike for commuting and I used to get bad shoulder and tingli g hands because I was to far forward. Getting the saddle setback right with an 80mm stem sorted me out.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that having the saddle "too far" forward isn't a bad thing. It's just that with a frame that's too big a rider is by definition likely to be too far behind the bottom bracket and that if a set back seatpost is being used than an inline one is probably a sensible thing to do. It's only moving the saddle clamp forward by about 20mm and that is the entire range of difference of the knee over foot parameter on a retul bike fit for a road bike. So even if the rider is only 5 or 6mm outside of that range to start with the new seatpost they will be within the range with the correct corresponding height adjustment.

 

[Nibor]

DM, if my seatpost is 29.8mm, would the seat post that is 27.2mm be waaaayy too small? Annoyingly I can't find any "cheap" in line seat posts at 29.8mm. (unless this one from decathlon works? I can't tell...http://www.decathlon.co.uk/298-mm-seat-post-id_8026721.html)

Buy a 27.2 to 29.8 shim for the seatpost