New car disaster!

[Marchrider]

Thinking more about these EVs that apparently recognise "speed signs" to whilst it might not be enforceable it might automatically cause those EVs exceeding the unauthorised sign to slow down anyway (as they don't know it's unauthorised and can't recognise it's stuck to a wheely bin rather than on a Highways installed post.

I suppose my thoughts are that if EVs are recognising eg speed limited stickers on othere vehicles as speed signs and acting on them, can a village exploit that shortcoming to reduce speeds through their village?

Ian

it is not just EVs, all new cars since last July recognise them and automatically reduce speed to comply

I thought about a 20 for the back of my cycling top - however drivers can cancel the automatic compliance by pressing the accelerator all the way down - they could loose control and flatten me

 

[CXRAndy]

There is also GPS to factor in. The vehicle knows where the speed limit officially changes. Even temporary speed limit changes are fed into the navigation database if setup through proper highways channels

 

[grldtnr]

Wouldn't bit be better all round if drivers just learned to comply , than override or be overridden by computers!
Nope I don't think they ever will, cyclist and pedestrians are destined to be 'overridden' In perpetuity.....

 

[Drago]

Wouldn't bit be better all round if drivers just learned to comply , than override or be overridden by computers!

What a quaint idea!

I don't get why modern speed limiters can be overridden with a stomp on the pedal. After all, if everyone is doing the same maximum speed then why would you need to break the law to get out of trouble?

HGVs manage just fine with a fixed speed barrier, and the only reason cars don't is massage the egos of thir driver.

 

[Alex321]

That is rather alarming , if you write it recognises the unit value i.e. 90 , and not unit metric , I e. M/pH or km / h , , for instance say it reads 110 km / HR as the speed limit , whichever equates to 75 mph here.

Not really.

I am sure it will know the metric according to the country (which it will know from GPS). It is the fact it is picking up the signs on the back of trucks that is the issue, and of course it can't know that is in a different metric to the local one.

It really shouldn't be picking up signs that are not at the side of the road.

And TBH, I think there should be a standard that those signs on the back of trucks should not look the same as the actual speed limit signs.

A prime example NOT to have these systems fitted.

Not really, but whatever you (or I) think about them is irrelevant. All new cars sold in Europe (including the UK) since July this year WILL have them fitted. You have no choice in that matter.

 

[Alex321]

Another thought

Some villages seem to try and "encourage" vehicles to slow down using stickers on wheely bins left by the road.

I've never investigated what legally constitutes a "speed limit sign" but eg a "20" on a white background inside a red circle but stuck on the side of a wheely bin - is that a legal speed limit sign and would a householder be breaking the law if they stuck one on their wheely bin and left it roadside?

If it was close to the legal definition of the sign, then yes they would be breaking the law.

Seems a way that villages suffering speed problems could in effect apply their own limits to EVs and thus increasingly over time resolve the problem.

This is nothing to do with EVs.

Many EVs have had them fitted for a while, but ALL new cars sold since July have them fitted regardless of fuel type.

 

[Alex321]

Thinking more about these EVs that apparently recognise "speed signs" to whilst it might not be enforceable it might automatically cause those EVs exceeding the unauthorised sign to slow down anyway (as they don't know it's unauthorised and can't recognise it's stuck to a wheely bin rather than on a Highways installed post.

I suppose my thoughts are that if EVs are recognising eg speed limited stickers on othere vehicles as speed signs and acting on them, can a village exploit that shortcoming to reduce speeds through their village?

Ian

Not legally, they can't.

 

[Alex321]

What a quaint idea!

I don't get why modern speed limiters can be overridden with a stomp on the pedal. After all, if everyone is doing the same maximum speed then why would you need to break the law to get out of trouble?

Largely because they ARE fallible. There will be times when they wrongly set the limit too low (or too high).

TBH, it setting the limit too high worries me more because once people know it will automatically set the limit, they won't concentrate on what the limit actually is, and will end up speeding if it sets the limit too high. I know they *should* still be well aware of the limits themselves, but many people don't do what they should do.

HGVs manage just fine with a fixed speed barrier, and the only reason cars don't is massage the egos of thir driver.

But that is a FIXED limit, which has no real relation to speed limits. Very different to a system which can decide the 50 limit road you are on is now a 30 because it caught a 30 sign that had been twisted around at the entrance to a housing estate.

 

[Drago]

You're conflating issues.

The accuracy with which a car may recognise a limit is a separate issue to a driver being able override a limiter at whim by stomping on the go pedal.

If car car is correctly observing a limit, and all other vehicles are doing the same, there are no circumstances where being able to circumvent the limit is necessary for reason of safety. Hurtling even faster towards danger is never as effective as braking way from it.

But the accuracy of speed detection systems is a matter in and of itself, and one that should have probably been resolved satisfactorily before compulsory limiters were mandate. That said, all these vehicles operate in the same environment and are exposed the same external visual indicators and stimuli.

And no unnecessary use of CAPITAL letters please. I'm not stupid, and research has demonstrated that such tactics actually make the less likely to be properly understood, doubtless the opposite effect to that which you intended.

 

[Alex321]

You're conflating issues.

No I'm not.

The accuracy with which a car may recognise a limit is a separate issue to a driver being able override a limiter at whim by stomping on the go pedal.

That is the supposed reason why they are allowing drivers to override it. Not so they can choose to speed "on a whim", although it certainly does give them that power.

If car car is correctly observing a limit, and all other vehicles are doing the same, there are no circumstances where being able to circumvent the limit is necessary for reason of safety. Hurtling even faster towards danger is never as effective as braking way from it.

If everybody is driving correctly, that is correct. But it is not quite always true, even if all drivers are within the limit. If a car comes out of a side road, and would hit you near the rear end, you might not be able to stop, but may just be able to get past by booting it. Very rare indeed, but not " quite no circumstances".

But the accuracy of speed detection systems is a matter in and of itself, and one that should have probably been resolved satisfactorily before compulsory limiters were mandate.

Agreed.

That said, all these vehicles operate in the same environment and are exposed the same external visual indicators and stimuli.

They are, but they don't all have the same software, and for quite a few years yet, many of the vehicles on the road won't have this system at all.
And of course, as always, the speed limit is a limit, not a target, sop many people will drive below what their limiter says they can do.

You will not find all vehicles driving at the same speed, even though they all have the same GPS and visual data.

And no unnecessary use of CAPITAL letters please. I'm not stupid, and research has demonstrated that such tactics actually make the less likely to be properly understood, doubtless the opposite effect to that which you intended.

The capital letters were just to emphasise that word. I could equally have bolded the words, would you prefer that?

 

[BoldonLad]

No-one has mentioned the tolerance on these devices, unless I have missed it. I doubt they are 100% accurate, so, room for variation between vehicles.

 

[Drago]

No-one has mentioned the tolerance on these devices, unless I have missed it. I doubt they are 100% accurate, so, room for variation between vehicles.

That's an issue for the manufacturers, not the environment in which they operate.

That some manufacturers manage it well (my Mini was perfect with recognising limits) demonstrates it can be done.

That the likes of Tesla, MG, VW (our MG is hopeless and so is my VW, but I've software disabled it in the latter) can't sort it in no way negates the fact that others can and do.

If people are that worried they should stick to buying cars from makers who've cracked it rather than complain after the event.

 

[DaveReading]

If it was close to the legal definition of the sign, then yes they would be breaking the law.

Out of interest, what law would cover that?

 

[Dogtrousers]

Out of interest, what law would cover that?

A bit of searching around suggests it might be section 132 of the Highways Act.

eg https://www.devon.gov.uk/roads-and-...ds/managing-the-network/unauthorised-signage/

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/132

If I'm right (which I'm probably not) that means it might be ok to have a 20 sign on your jersey or bike as it's not affixed to the surface of the highway, or any tree, structure or works as the law describes.

I am not a lawyer. Do not take my ramblings as legal advice or else you could end up looking like one of those Magna Carta nutjobs.

 

[grldtnr]

Pictures speak louder than words Alex321,.......