New build - no insulation

[Poacher]

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit but has anyone on here had that beaded cavity wall insulation done in their house? Thinking about having it done as my hallways freezing (pre1930s house). I have read a few complimentary reviews but also a few horror stories that have put me right off.

Are you sure you actually have a cavity wall? A pre 1930s house is likely to be solid wall.

 

[srw]

We bought a new build Persimmons home 2 years ago, and have always been concerned with how cold two of the bedrooms are.
We've been fobbed off when we've brought it up - house drying out, radiators needing bleeding, that sort of thing.
I finally got them to send someone out to look into it properly though and it turns out there's no insulation in the walls/ceiling. I'm not entirely sure where it's supposed to be the workman they sent admitted he was confusing himself trying to explain hot and cold roof space to me.
Unfortunately they'd shut up shop for Christmas by the time he delivered the news, so I have to wait until Wednesday to explode.
Has anyone any experience with this? Or just know a bit about insulation?

Private Eye has had a reasonably long-running series about several of the housebuilders taking the mickey by delivering new-builds which are half-finished. It's not online, but a search should unearth a forum discussing it.

 

[PK99]

We bought a new build Persimmons home 2 years ago, and have always been concerned with how cold two of the bedrooms are.
We've been fobbed off when we've brought it up - house drying out, radiators needing bleeding, that sort of thing.
I finally got them to send someone out to look into it properly though and it turns out there's no insulation in the walls/ceiling. I'm not entirely sure where it's supposed to be the workman they sent admitted he was confusing himself trying to explain hot and cold roof space to me.
Unfortunately they'd shut up shop for Christmas by the time he delivered the news, so I have to wait until Wednesday to explode.
Has anyone any experience with this? Or just know a bit about insulation?

Know a tiny bit, hot vs cold roof as per pic below

[We have on open-pitch pine roof to our extension - as drawing on the right but no internal ceiling and fine wood sub deck.]

 

[screenman]

It is scary to look Persimmon up in trust pilot.

 

[MikeG]

We bought a new build Persimmons home 2 years ago, and have always been concerned with how cold two of the bedrooms are.
We've been fobbed off when we've brought it up - house drying out, radiators needing bleeding, that sort of thing.
I finally got them to send someone out to look into it properly though and it turns out there's no insulation in the walls/ceiling. I'm not entirely sure where it's supposed to be the workman they sent admitted he was confusing himself trying to explain hot and cold roof space to me.
Unfortunately they'd shut up shop for Christmas by the time he delivered the news, so I have to wait until Wednesday to explode.
Has anyone any experience with this? Or just know a bit about insulation?

I'm an architect. I know a lot about insulation, and the Building Regulations. I also know that Persimmon just paid their CEO a 100 million pound annual bonus. (Yes, read that again!). I would immediately threaten them with court, Trading Standards, and the local press. It is utterly unforgiveable for the insulation to be left out entirely. It is completely contra to the Building Regulations. Find out from them who was the building inspector for your property, and threaten them with court as well. Note that NHBC is NOT an Approved Inspector. Their own inspections are to ensure compliance with their own standards, not with the Building Regulations.

Frankly, I would ask for a new house, for compensation for the discomfort you've suffered and for the excess bills you have had to pay to keep warm, and failing a new house then free accommodation plus expenses and compensation whilst the job is brought up to standard. Depending on the construction type, it may not be possible to retro-fit insulation to the walls in such a way as to bring it into compliance, and a total rebuild would then be necessary. Yes, the entire house, in some circumstances, may have to be demolished.

Damn, this sort of thing makes my blood boil.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

OP if I was you I'd PM Mike!

 

[Sandra6]

Is it a kit house?
Insulation should be behind the plasterboard between the wooden studs.

View attachment 389367

That's what I thought it was like- from seeing some of the unfinished houses, but from looking at forums etc the general opinion seems to be that they will just pump the foam stuff in through holes in the wall. I'm not overly enthusiastic about that.

I'm an architect. I know a lot about insulation, and the Building Regulations. I also know that Persimmon just paid their CEO a 100 million pound annual bonus. (Yes, read that again!). I would immediately threaten them with court, Trading Standards, and the local press. It is utterly unforgiveable for the insulation to be left out entirely. It is completely contra to the Building Regulations. Find out from them who was the building inspector for your property, and threaten them with court as well. Note that NHBC is NOT an Approved Inspector. Their own inspections are to ensure compliance with their own standards, not with the Building Regulations.

Frankly, I would ask for a new house, for compensation for the discomfort you've suffered and for the excess bills you have had to pay to keep warm, and failing a new house then free accommodation plus expenses and compensation whilst the job is brought up to standard. Depending on the construction type, it may not be possible to retro-fit insulation to the walls in such a way as to bring it into compliance, and a total rebuild would then be necessary. Yes, the entire house, in some circumstances, may have to be demolished.

Damn, this sort of thing makes my blood boil.

Thank you. This was my worse case scenario. Mr6 wants his money back, but from a practical view I don't want to move house again. We almost just gave in and accepted it was just a cold house, but I saw a programme about a house where they'd "forgot" to insulate and was a bit gobsmacked that that sort of thing happened, but it seems its far more common place than it should be!
I will be kicking up an almight stink, and expect a good bit of compensation. I'm not at all thrilled at the prospect of having to move out while they do it. There's the dog and rabbit and umpteem fish to consider aswell as us and the kids, but needs must.
As for NHBC, it's my understanding that persimmons are responsible in the first two years, then NHBC for the remainder of the 10 year guarantee.
Watch this space!

 

[threebikesmcginty]

...Yes, the entire house, in some circumstances, may have to be demolished...

Oh give over, there's no need to scare people beyond the reality of their particular situation.

 

[Slick]

Oh give over, there's no need to scare people beyond the reality of their particular situation.

I didn't want to interfere and no doubt there had been some obscure precedent somewhere.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

That's what I thought it was like- from seeing some of the unfinished houses, but from looking at forums etc the general opinion seems to be that they will just pump the foam stuff in through holes in the wall. I'm not overly enthusiastic about that.



Thank you. This was my worse case scenario. Mr6 wants his money back, but from a practical view I don't want to move house again. We almost just gave in and accepted it was just a cold house, but I saw a programme about a house where they'd "forgot" to insulate and was a bit gobsmacked that that sort of thing happened, but it seems its far more common place than it should be!
I will be kicking up an almight stink, and expect a good bit of compensation. I'm not at all thrilled at the prospect of having to move out while they do it. There's the dog and rabbit and umpteem fish to consider aswell as us and the kids, but needs must.
As for NHBC, it's my understanding that persimmons are responsible in the first two years, then NHBC for the remainder of the 10 year guarantee.
Watch this space!

Warm roof - insulation along line of rafters, cold roof - insulation along line of ceiling. Yours is most likely to be a trussed rafter cold roof. If there's a cavity it can be filled, if there's a loft it can be insulated.

 

[MikeG]

Oh give over, there's no need to scare people beyond the reality of their particular situation.

They'll just pump the foam into the walls and put those rolls down in the loft.
The house will not have to be pulled down.........

You're assuming that it is masonry cavity construction with flat ceilings upstairs, in which case the works should indeed be relatively straightforward. You both missed, for some reason, the rather important "in some circumstances" caveat in that sentence of mine. Were this house to have vaulted ceilings, and/ or some sorts of timber framing, then retro-fitting to the required specification may be impossible.

 

[Davos87]

Are you sure you actually have a cavity wall? A pre 1930s house is likely to be solid wall.

Yes we have a cavity. It’s two bricks parallel with those metal butterfly wall ties. You can see I’m up to scratch on my technical language can’t you? I have a very long external wall at the side of the property alongside the drive. I have a radiator in the hallway which gets hot and is going full pelt but going from my living room into the hallway it’s like stepping into a fridge. One other consideration might be to have the wall internally dry lined with insulation behind it?? There’s a guy who writes for The Telegraph with years of experience in the building trade and he researched and wrote an article about the blown beaded insulation which has me concerned. Like others have alluded to cavities are there for a reason and he’s every dubious about filling them with insulating gunk.

 

[MikeG]

.........As for NHBC, it's my understanding that persimmons are responsible in the first two years, then NHBC for the remainder of the 10 year guarantee.......

That is indeed the situation. However, rather than essentially just making an insurance claim (that's all the NHBC are.......a registered insurance company specialising in new properties), I would go for Persimmon and the Building Inspector with a solicitor, if I were you, after getting an independent survey of the property.

 

[Slick]

Yes we have a cavity. It’s two bricks parallel with those metal butterfly wall ties. You can see I’m up to scratch on my technical language can’t you? I have a very long external wall at the side of the property alongside the drive. I have a radiator in the hallway which gets hot and is going full pelt but going from my living room into the hallway it’s like stepping into a fridge. One other consideration might be to have the wall internally dry lined with insulation behind it?? There’s a guy who writes for The Telegraph with years of experience in the building trade and he researched and wrote an article about the blown beaded insulation which has me concerned. Like others have alluded to cavities are there for a reason and he’s every dubious about filling them with insulating gunk.

A lot of people and councils use insulated rendered panels on the outside.

 

[screenman]

I would listen to the expert on here.