need help standing and pedalling

[KneesUp]

[QUOTE 3063604, member: 9609"]Well my theory is; from the bikes furthest lean to the left position to its furthest to the right position, the pedal relative to the ground will have moved, therefore relative to the ground the pedal has a greater distance to travel, therefore a greater mechanical advantage. Of course this mechanical advantage comes at the cost of us needing to move the bike from side to side which is undoubtedly wasteful, but then the muscles of the upper body has been brought into play that also reduces the burden on the legs.[/QUOTE]

The 'gearing' is a measure of how many time the driven wheel rotates for each rotation of the pedals - and how hard this is to do is also a function of crank length.

Leaning the bike has no effect on any of the factors that determine the gearing.

 

[KneesUp]

[QUOTE 3063622, member: 9609"]from the top to the bottom of the stroke, the foot will have travelled further, hence greater mechanical advantage.[/QUOTE]

Not if it's attached to a fixed-length crank arm it won't.

EDIT - or at least it won't have in the plane that affects the gearing.

 

[JasonHolder]

I think her putting down more power and improving her riding style may come with more experience and confidence. If she doesn't have a lot of saddle time let her develop her muscles and sense of balance on the bike by riding more and increasing her ability. After a while you can use the "LAST ONE TO THE TOP OF THE HILL IS A ROTTEN EGG!" method and see how development is coming along.

Thanks for that. I think I'll give this approach a go! Much appreciatted.

Julia thanks for your response too! Just a quick one, that heel Down business... It=you losing power and efficiency big time.

Have you ever seen this diagram?

 

[Julia9054]

Your diagram shows heel down on down stroke - from about 12 o'clock to about 5o'clock. Which is what I meant. Feels a bit strange at the moment and I'm not noticing any discernible benefit but will persevere for now.

 

[JasonHolder]

Your diagram shows heel down on down stroke - from about 12 o'clock to about 5o'clock. Which is what I meant. Feels a bit strange at the moment and I'm not noticing any discernible benefit but will persevere for now.

Ah got you your description was brief first time round. Thought you were heel down the entire revolution
Who ever you heard it off is right. However, as with most things, it takes some time for change to become fluid and economical. Much like spinning really.

 

[Gravity Aided]

Ankling is what we used to refer to that as
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/05/efficiency-of-pedal-stroke-ankling/

 

[Rob3rt]

I'd leave her too it, with experience will mostly likely come a natural improvement in form.

The Manx Missile stands and looks very crouched down, works pretty well for him.

Cav isn't crouched in the same sense the OP is about I gather. Cav is rotated forward over the bike, the subject of the OP is upright but squatted down IF I am understanding correctly

[QUOTE 3063604, member: 9609"]Well my theory is; from the bikes furthest lean to the left position to its furthest to the right position, the pedal relative to the ground will have moved, therefore relative to the ground the pedal has a greater distance to travel, therefore a greater mechanical advantage. Of course this mechanical advantage comes at the cost of us needing to move the bike from side to side which is undoubtedly wasteful, but then the muscles of the upper body has been brought into play that also reduces the burden on the legs.[/QUOTE]

&

[QUOTE 3063622, member: 9609"]from the top to the bottom of the stroke, the foot will have travelled further, hence greater mechanical advantage.[/QUOTE]

Stop thinking relative to the ground but instead think relative to the bottom bracket.

Do it the quick way instead: stay sitting down.

Staying seated is not inherently quicker.

View attachment 44371 that heel Down business... It=you losing power and efficiency big time.

Have you ever seen this diagram?
View attachment 44371

Heel up, heel down, etc, I wouldn't concern yourself with it too much. A proper bike fit should sort it, for example you can't heel down if the saddle is high enough to stop it for example, however it could do more harm than good if there is a physiological reason they pedal heel down. Some people they may simply be better off doing something "imperfect" if it works for them as most people will tend to what is efficient, if they don't move away from that technique there is probably a reason.

BTW Friel isn't always right, he says plenty of debatable stuff

 

[Peter Armstrong]

I climb seated, but only stand when punching a short steep hill.

 

[Spinney]

I think her putting down more power and improving her riding style may come with more experience and confidence. If she doesn't have a lot of saddle time let her develop her muscles and sense of balance on the bike by riding more and increasing her ability. After a while you can use the "LAST ONE TO THE TOP OF THE HILL IS A ROTTEN EGG!" method and see how development is coming along.

Use this with care... believe me, it can frequently result in a '**** off then' response!

 

[KneesUp]

I was thinking about this thread the other day as I contemplated what I call 'the big hill' on the way home (it's 12% briefly - that's big to me!) and it occured to me that although I instincively got out of the saddle when I had my road bike all those years ago, and would have got up the hill by blasting up it, my approach now is to sit and grind up. I don't know if this is a fitness thing, or a geometry thing: I ride an MTB at the moment and because it doesn't have bar ends, I don't feel like I'd be able to get much leverage standing up, so it kind of seems pointless. The frame is smaller, too, so it feels like the cross-bar is too short to have enough room to get up, and I haven't got clipless pedals or toe clips on it - all factors that mean I don't bother standing, but until I thought about it I wasn't really aware of.

Perhaps the reluctant standee - aside from just preferring to ride the way she wants to ride - just doesn't feel comfortable riding that way on the bike she has?

 

[Spinney]

I was thinking about this thread the other day as I contemplated what I call 'the big hill' on the way home (it's 12% briefly - that's big to me!) and it occured to me that although I instincively got out of the saddle when I had my road bike all those years ago, and would have got up the hill by blasting up it, my approach now is to sit and grind up. I don't know if this is a fitness thing, or a geometry thing: I ride an MTB at the moment and because it doesn't have bar ends, I don't feel like I'd be able to get much leverage standing up, so it kind of seems pointless. The frame is smaller, too, so it feels like the cross-bar is too short to have enough room to get up, and I haven't got clipless pedals or toe clips on it - all factors that mean I don't bother standing, but until I thought about it I wasn't really aware of.

Perhaps the reluctant standee - aside from just preferring to ride the way she wants to ride - just doesn't feel comfortable riding that way on the bike she has?

This makes sense - I never stand up much on the hybrid, but do quite often on the tourer

 

[JasonHolder]

Very possible. She had a hybrid before her road bike. I would have though 6months on the specialized dolce would have gotten her used to the geo etc. Guess some people just find adapting harder.

Rode with her again today, now considering removing her saddle to make her find economy standing the hard way.

 

[KneesUp]

Very possible. She had a hybrid before her road bike. I would have though 6months on the specialized dolce would have gotten her used to the geo etc. Guess some people just find adapting harder.

Rode with her again today, now considering removing her saddle to make her find economy standing the hard way.

Why are you so obsessed with how someone else rides their bike? What does she think? Is she happy to ride as she does? Or does she actually want to ride in a less efficient manner?

 

[screenman]

What are your qualifications? I mean how do you know what they are doing is wrong and what you want is correct.
It is easy to put people off of cycling by messing with their head.

 

[JasonHolder]

She wants to get better and I want her to look Pro as fark as she does, she's keen, even asking me to teach her to track stand and other useful stuff like that.
PS I made sure her saddle bag had an accident to ensure its removal rapido! So getting better definitely