Mystery Bicycle, 50's Hurrlow Mal Rees?

[mikeymustard]

Some very interesting details
It has an awful lot of braze-ons for a 50s frame - are you thinking that maybe these were put on later, when it was resprayed, perhaps? I can see why someone would spend money to have it updated, it's a very nice machine!
There's a touch of Flying Scot about those wrapover seat stays

 

[biggs682]

Some very interesting details
It has an awful lot of braze-ons for a 50s frame - are you thinking that maybe these were put on later, when it was resprayed, perhaps? I can see why someone would spend money to have it updated, it's a very nice machine!
There's a touch of Flying Scot about those wrapover seat stays

lugs and wrap over are very similar in style and age to my Dunelt returns

 

[biggs682]

Oh yes it's in very good working condition, it gets ridden plenty and has a lovely feel.

thats good

 

[stedlocks]

Just my twopence worth.....
I've never seen a hurlow frame with wrap over seat stays, but that's not to say there haven't been any! Bill gray, who used to work at claud butler used the wrap over extensively.....which led me to look for George Stratton frames, who he built for after (as well as others). The frame number is similar to his too, but his was normally 3 numbers, followed by 3 numbers....
Anyway, I found this Stratton cyclocross frame that has a lot of similarities to yours, including a lot of the same braze ons.
http://claud-butler.blogspot.co.uk

I might be wrong, but it's a start for your research!

 

[mikeymustard]

lugs and wrap over are very similar in style and age to my Dunelt returns

Just my twopence worth.....
I've never seen a hurlow frame with wrap over seat stays, but that's not to say there haven't been any! Bill gray, who used to work at claud butler used the wrap over extensively.....
Anyway, I found this Stratton cyclocross frame that has a lot of similarities to yours, including a lot of the same braze ons.
http://claud-butler.blogspot.co.uk

I might be wrong, but it's a start for your research!

interesting stuff

 

[KEW]

Thanks for all these suggestions guys, some great places to start investigations. I'll begin my research with all this in mind, I'll let you know if I find anything interesting out have any questions. In the mean time if anyone has any more ideas as to what it could be that'd always be great to hear.

In particular any more ideas about the serial number would be great. I'll look into Stratton bikes as stedlocks suggested, but that wasn't quite a perfect match. Do you think the 57 in 579 means 1957? Because lots of the gear on the bike (the gear I originally listed rather than what's currently on the frame on the pictures) is from the mid to late '50s. Or perhaps the 14 could be the year of production from the start date of that system. Or the number 14 could be a registry for a certain builder under a company name; I believe mal rees did this although I haven't seen example serial numbers so I do not know if they also had this 14 above the second number. If anyone had a 50s - 60s mal rees I'd be very interested to know the serial number.

Some very interesting details
It has an awful lot of braze-ons for a 50s frame - are you thinking that maybe these were put on later, when it was resprayed, perhaps? I can see why someone would spend money to have it updated, it's a very nice machine!
There's a touch of Flying Scot about those wrapover seat stays

As to the braze ons. I have a feeling they are original. They seem to match the campagnolo gear that was on the frame (particularly the eyelets for the thumb shifters). I don't think when it was resprayed they went to the effort of putting new braze ons on; this is because the paint job, although attractive, is not the best sort for a bike, it comes off rather easily. I would think that if they had gone to the effort of brazing they would have done a top quality paint job. I think rather than the brazings being done later I think the bike was built in the late 50s in response to some of the new designs of gear from campagnolo that came out right around then, but I realise that that would make the bike seem a bit ahead of its time so I'm not sure what really happened, that's just my thoughts.

 

[Illaveago]

That is a very nice bike and it has a few features that are similar to what I was told was a Maurice Woodrup. The curved brake bridge mounting with the diamond shaped fillets are similar to what I have on mine. My seat stays aren't completely wrap over but finish in points near the top.
Could you look on the inside of the top of the front forks where they meet? Mine have small shield shaped lugs fitted on the inside.
It's exasperating when there are no proper means of identification.

 

[KEW]

That is a very nice bike and it has a few features that are similar to what I was told was a Maurice Woodrup. The curved brake bridge mounting with the diamond shaped fillets are similar to what I have on mine. My seat stays aren't completely wrap over but finish in points near the top.
Could you look on the inside of the top of the front forks where they meet? Mine have small shield shaped lugs fitted on the inside.
It's exasperating when there are no proper means of identification.

I rather enjoy the hunt usually, but I simply haven't managed to get very far with this frame which is tiring yes.

When you say the 'inside of the top of the forks where they meet', do you mean where the forks enter the crown on the inside? I shall certainly give that a check when I'm back home. How old is your Woodrup? Is it a similar age to what mine might be? Also does yours have a serial number, if so could I ask what format it is? Cheers.

 

[Illaveago]

I rather enjoy the hunt usually, but I simply haven't managed to get very far with this frame which is tiring yes.

When you say the 'inside of the top of the forks where they meet', do you mean where the forks enter the crown on the inside? I shall certainly give that a check when I'm back home. How old is your Woodrup? Is it a similar age to what mine might be? Also does yours have a serial number, if so could I ask what format it is? Cheers.

I was told that it was a1963 Maurice Woodrup but I haven't been able to get much further at the moment. As for the top inside of the forks Yes. It is as if they have continued the outside decoration but have left it plain. It is the first time I've seen it and also the chap who sold it to me, he pointed it out as I was looking at it.
As for frame numbers all I can find is a letter F on the bottom bracket. I removed the paint just in case it was hidden but still no numbers, likewise for the fork stem, nothing.

 

[KEW]

I was told that it was a1963 Maurice Woodrup but I haven't been able to get much further at the moment. As for the top inside of the forks Yes. It is as if they have continued the outside decoration but have left it plain. It is the first time I've seen it and also the chap who sold it to me, he pointed it out as I was looking at it.
As for frame numbers all I can find is a letter F on the bottom bracket. I removed the paint just in case it was hidden but still no numbers, likewise for the fork stem, nothing.

Thanks for that. I'll get back to you about the crown when I check.

 

[Illaveago]

Here are a couple of pics of my frame with slender rear stays.

 

[biggs682]

Here are a couple of pics of my frame with slender rear stays.

@Illaveago that is still a good looking frame even with no bits bolted on

 

[KEW]

That is a very nice bike and it has a few features that are similar to what I was told was a Maurice Woodrup. The curved brake bridge mounting with the diamond shaped fillets are similar to what I have on mine. My seat stays aren't completely wrap over but finish in points near the top.
Could you look on the inside of the top of the front forks where they meet? Mine have small shield shaped lugs fitted on the inside.
It's exasperating when there are no proper means of identification.

I have checked the inside of the fork crown (just very roughly, I have been very busy and haven't taken off the mudguards etc. so can't see fully) I believe I see there is a little bit of a design in there. I'll get the guards off and post some pics when I can.

 

[rayedgecombe]

I have acquired a very lovely old frame but do not quite know what it is exactly or when exactly 'twas built. It is obviously very high quality and has many little features that are probably only used by a small number of the top frame builders. Not only is it covered with many of these features it is also kitted out with extremely top notch Italian gear. We believe most of the gear is original to the frame (with about one exception). With some clues from the gear used and the serial number we are not completely sure about we believe the bicycle was built in 1957.

Now the full story of this bicycle is not known however I have some guesses as to some of its story. The bike has a rather attractive paint job and sports an 'Alfa Romeo' head tube decal. Haha I'm sure most of you are aware that Alfa Romeo had no hand in making bikes in the '50s; so yes this was obviously a repaint. My guess is that this bike was repainted a fair while ago by a keen classic car enthusiast who wished to have the bike match one of his cars. I believe that during this repaint it was also switched from a 10 speed to a 5 speed where they removed a single speed crankset and replaced it with a single speed Williams crankset; this is the only part that I believe to be unoriginal (the bike was obviously designed to be a 10 speed due to the pair of eyelets guides at the top of the down tube).

I WILL GET PICTURES UP ASAP! (hopefully tomorrow)

Now not all of the gear that is on the bike currently is what it came with (I still have the gear I belive to be original do not worry, it shall be put back on the bike shortly). Here is the complete list of what it had/has:

• 'Il Primo Milano' 1950s Steel Handlebar Stem (with riveted badge)
• Handlebar (Also 'Il Primo Milano'?, I shall double check)
• 'Universal' 1950s Alloy Brake levers & Mod61 Centre Pull Brakes
• 'Wrights' Saddle Unoriginal definitely, came without saddle. I believe a 'Brooks' swallow had been removed.
• 'Campagnolo' Steel Micro Adjust Seat Post 27.2mm (I believe this was the early design if not the earliest (only manufactured 1956-57?))
• 'Campagnolo' Thumb Shifter. I do not know much about this part but I would guess that it one of their earlier designs, put on the bike when built, so probably from around 1957.
• 'Campagnolo' 1950s Gran Sport Rear Derailleur Gear
• 'Campagnolo' 1950s Gran Sport steel hubs with large alloy flanges (3 piece).
• 'Regina' Gran Sport Corse 1950s Freewheel. 14-16-19-23-25, interestingly drilled as small as 19 toothed sprocket.
• Unknown Steel Headset. It seems to be a very fine quality headset however I cannot see any branding
• Bottom Bracket - Cannot remember brand or any definitive features
• Pedals - Cannot remember specific details, I believe they are
• Mudguards most likely unoriginal, I presume put on during repaint
• 'Williams' Crankset Unoriginal not photographed

Here are some key clues that suggest it is of a top builder, they are photographed but I shall also tell you what to look out for (also just some frame details):

• Diamond Lugs for 'brake bridge' (cannot remember correct name) in seat stays
• Very neatly filed Nervex Pro lugs
• Very pleasing and delicate tapered wrap-over stays
• Oil port in bottom bracket (I am not certain of this, I shall check when I have the chance)
• Uncommon fork design, very neat
• 72° parallel frame
• Must be 531 throughout
• Eyelets for thumb shifters
• Serial Number - I cannot remember this off the top of my head but shall check when I am home. I believe it is a two part number with a 14 above and a 4 digit number below (possibly 5768)

Okay I may have gotten carried away with this post but I am sure someone will likely be able to identify this bike pretty easily as these little design features must be a dead giveaway for a particular builder. I would also like to say that this might not be 100% correct information; I am writing this from college on my break without the bike so I am having to do all this by memory, I believe everything I have said is about correct and I have admitted to not being able to recall certain parts (this is also why I am posting without pictures for the moment). Thank you for reading all this and thank you if you can shed any light on this!

Hi I used to work for Mal Rees cycles in Hayes Middx. I was a wheel builder. I am 85 now so it was some time back. I now live a few miles where Mal was born. My father and I both had Mal's frames. bought back some memories,, Ray

 

[biggs682]

Hi I used to work for Mal Rees cycles in Hayes Middx. I was a wheel builder. I am 85 now so it was some time back. I now live a few miles where Mal was born. My father and I both had Mal's frames. bought back some memories,, Ray

Welcome @rayedgecombe
Do you still have any bike's?
Loads of memories I hope