My daughter won't zip her jacket on camp

[KneesUp]

I really don't see the issue. If the kid can zip up herself, she can also decide for herself if she needs to zip up. I get annoyed by the failure of adults to listen to what children are saying to them, and to refuse to accept that they have autonomy, especially with regard to their own person. And people wonder why people grow up to be irresponsible?

If the instruction was 'don't cross the A road' and the kid ignored it, I can see their point. But not over zipping a jacket.

Children should absolutely be aware that they don't always have to do everything everyone asks them to, and to use their own judgement.

 

[alicat]

To be honest I think the leaders are doing their best to act in the best interest of the girls in their care, the problem being when at camp, a child can get cold without realising it, until it’s too late, then you have to deal with a cold, homesick child, who won’t settle until a parent comes to collect them, and then won’t want to go to camp again, don’t forget she’s only 6 and can soon get cold and upset.

I'd go with this. Perhaps the child looked cold but didn't realise it in the midst of the excitement of a new experience.

 

[k_green]

Children should absolutely be aware that they don't always have to do everything everyone asks them to, and to use their own judgement.

this is a really important point but a delicate balance to tread between respecting authority and knowing when someone does not have their best interests in mind.

 

[Jennifer92]

I spoke to my daughter last night and explained that she needs to listen to the leaders at all times, even if that means zipping her jacket, because I have told her on many occasions to do that if she has come out of school with her jacket wide open on wet days etc. I then gave her the opportunity to tell me why she doesn't want it zipped and her reply was "sometimes I don't feel cold even on wet days" so my reply was "ok but maybe the leaders don't want you walking about or playing in soaking wet clothes, do they ask you to put hoods up or hats on too" to which she replied "yes but that then messes my hair, by getting spiky etc".

 

[Heltor Chasca]

I spoke to my daughter last night and explained that she needs to listen to the leaders at all times, even if that means zipping her jacket, because I have told her on many occasions to do that if she has come out of school with her jacket wide open on wet days etc. I then gave her the opportunity to tell me why she doesn't want it zipped and her reply was "sometimes I don't feel cold even on wet days" so my reply was "ok but maybe the leaders don't want you walking about or playing in soaking wet clothes, do they ask you to put hoods up or hats on too" to which she replied "yes but that then messes my hair, by getting spiky etc".

There you are: Perfectly sound reasons for having her jacket open. Good for her. She sounds like she knows what she’s doing.

 

[Jennifer92]

There you are: Perfectly sound reasons for having her jacket open. Good for her. She sounds like she knows what she’s doing.

It might be good for her but we can't be allowing kids to disobey orders from teachers or brownies leaders, as has already been mentioned in this thread. I just told her that she must obey the order, if she agrees with it or not, otherwise the leaders will just zip it themselves and their likely to zip it right up to the top then put up the hood.

 

[Brains]

As an Explorer Scout leader, If I ask you to zip up your jacket, then that is what I expect to happen
I'm older, I'm in charge.
The reason why is to take one genuine case, I had a lady, probably in her 30's, so old enough to know better, who, on Mt Snowdon refused to zip up her jacket, I'm not really sure why, she was asked by more than one leader to do so. We only just got her off the mountain, soaked through and suffering from hypothermia.

With the benefit of hindsight, i suspect she may have been borderline hypothermic at the top, hence the reason for refusing a direct request.

Bottom line is the person in charge make the decisions and Scouts of any age (6 to 60) are expected to follow them

 

[KneesUp]

As an Explorer Scout leader, If I ask you to zip up your jacket, then that is what I expect to happen
I'm older, I'm in charge.
The reason why is to take one genuine case, I had a lady, probably in her 30's, so old enough to know better, who, on Mt Snowdon refused to zip up her jacket, I'm not really sure why, she was asked by more than one leader to do so. We only just got her off the mountain, soaked through and suffering from hypothermia.

With the benefit of hindsight, i suspect she may have been borderline hypothermic at the top, hence the reason for refusing a direct request.

Bottom line is the person in charge make the decisions and Scouts of any age (6 to 60) are expected to follow them

I'm not sure what happened here - you think she was hypothermic early on which is why she wasn't following instructions, but you're still saying she should have done up her jacket when you instructed her to?

 

[alicat]

^^^ the key word are 'with the benefit of hindsight'.

 

[pjd57]

I'm with your daughter on this one.
Rebel against the hierarchy !

 

[Ming the Merciless]

As an Explorer Scout leader, If I ask you to zip up your jacket, then that is what I expect to happen
I'm older, I'm in charge.
The reason why is to take one genuine case, I had a lady, probably in her 30's, so old enough to know better, who, on Mt Snowdon refused to zip up her jacket, I'm not really sure why, she was asked by more than one leader to do so. We only just got her off the mountain, soaked through and suffering from hypothermia.

With the benefit of hindsight, i suspect she may have been borderline hypothermic at the top, hence the reason for refusing a direct request.

Bottom line is the person in charge make the decisions and Scouts of any age (6 to 60) are expected to follow them

If you are taking inexperienced people up a mountain it is important to monitor and check their condition regularly as they ascend. They may not realise that in dry conditions the temperature will drop 1C for every 100m of vertical ascent. The summer mountain leader qualification would cover this if you haven't already obtained it. One of later symptoms of hypothermia is mental confusion.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

As an Explorer Scout leader, If I ask you to zip up your jacket, then that is what I expect to happen
I'm older, I'm in charge....Bottom line is the person in charge make the decisions and Scouts of any age (6 to 60) are expected to follow them

Definitely a cult. You have been brain washed by the ghost of Baden Powell.

 

[Brains]

If you are taking inexperienced people up a mountain it is important to monitor and check their condition regularly as they ascend. They may not realise that in dry conditions the temperature will drop 1C for every 100m of vertical ascent. The summer mountain leader qualification would cover this if you haven't already obtained it. One of later symptoms of hypothermia is mental confusion.

Yep, covered it.
The issue in this particular case is it was a three peaks event and we had 4 coach loads of people to deal with.
However even with 5 experienced leaders on the mountain, we all missed it until it was too late.
I've had to deal with Hypothermia on at least three occasions in the last 25 years, and I've missed it's symptoms every time, it's not easy to spot early unless you suspect it

 

[Julia9054]

I'm with your daughter on this one.
Rebel against the hierarchy !

Then don't join organisations that expect you to conform. They don't suit all children.

 

[Jennifer92]

Trust me guys, I am NOT agreeing with all that are for her disobeying the leader.

I think some on this thread think my issue is with my daughter needing to zip her jacket up when in fact, that is totally not my issue, all I did by starting this was ask for advice on getting her doing it automatically without needing asked. As I have said already, I've on many occasions asked her to zip her jacket up,, especially on days that she comes out with it wide open from school, and its unpleasant weather.