My 20 minute Cragg Vale hill climb challenge

[Ming the Merciless]

No, I could guess if that was of help but I don’t know. I would have been +/-80kg then.

I was on a club ride. We rode over from Chorley to do the climb. One of the ladies was very nervous about doing this. She only came on the ride on the understanding I would ride with her all the way. Her achievement in completing the climb was more important than what I might have achieved.

Shame, because as you’ll know, climb time will be primarily be determined by power to (total) weight ratio. Power on its own can’t tell you that. Are the values from power meters or just Strava random guesses?

 

[Sea of vapours]

No, I could guess if that was of help but I don’t know.

Are those figures from Strava @PaulSB ? If so, are you a subscriber? If you are, you can determine at least the weight range they were in at the time by filtering the leaderboard by weight range (assuming they've put their weight in that is ...).

As to the 20m target, @ColinJ , the closest match to you, by age / weight, of someone who's been up the segment linked above in about 20m is a man in the 75-85kg range, who did it in 19:59m whilst aged 45-55 years, at 320W average (power meter data). The fastest in the 65-69 range is 20m30s (no weight recorded). Sooooo...... it's certainly quite ambitious / challenging.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I've done it twice, fastest 34 minutes and a bit. In my defence, both were in the second half of very hilly century rides, so I definitely wasn't pushing it, however, I'm very confident I'd never make 20 minutes.

Given the nature of the very gentle gradient and extremely exposed near flat second half, I'd say that wind is key to a fast time, and weather on the day will make far more difference than a marginal increase in effort.

I'd also say that it's a crap climb, enclosed and tedious at the bottom and exposed and very tedious at the top, lacking almost everything that makes for an enjoyable ascent. I can think of about 20 better West Yorkshire climbs off the top of my head!

 

[ColinJ]

Colin - is it this segment? https://www.strava.com/segments/16336054

No. That is the full length of the climb from the sign in Mytholmroyd; about 1 km longer. The first section is a very shallow drag, maybe at around 1%. The local council make a big thing of it being the longest continuous climb in Britain so they probably need that extra km!

I am sure that my shorter route will have its own segment because it is used on the annual hill climb TT. I don't use Strava though, so perhaps someone else can search for me?

I have friends who have recorded the following, age at time of climb:

33 years old - 21:59 - 271 watts - 14.9mph avg
36 years old - 24:49 - 240 watts - 13.2mph avg (my son)
59 years old - 23:27 - 272 watts - 14.0mph avg
63 years old - 35.13 - 147 watts - 9.3mph avg
(me! - my only attempt. I sat with a young woman who was struggling, tears, to keep her company. I don't know what I might achieve with effort)
68 years old - 29.10 - 187 watts - 11.2mph avg

I know many people, 50+, who have recorded the segment. I thought the above relevant in terms of age, time, watts, speed.........and perhaps interest

Interesting, thanks.

I have cycled up there with a non-cycling-fit friend and she found it very difficult. We ended up turning left just after the steep bit and going down to a cafe in Sowerby Bridge.

We saw a very impressive sight on the descent. A muscular young man was showing off his physique to his mates. He did a handstand on a wall and started doing multiple rapid vertical press-ups!!!

Do you know their weights at the time of their climbs ?

Yes, I was wondering that too!

When I was otherwise relatively fit, my weight held me back. I was usually 80-85 kg.

At the time I got my first DVT/PE in summer 2012 though, I had ballooned up to over 115 kg so climbing was torture.

I did the climb with a mate on the Sunday that Bradley Wiggins won the TdF. I was already getting ill and took well over an hour to get up there!

The reasons that I have decided to have another go at this now are...

• Realistically, at my age (69), I am running out of time! It will only get harder with every passing year.
• I have got my weight under control. 78.5 kg is one of the lowest weights I have ever been during the winter. I am fairly sure that I can get another 4-6 kg off by the summer. That will give my climbing a real boost.
• I have laid the foundation by doing 3+ rides every week for more than 2 years. I am going to add increased distance and intensity to that consistency. I have a smart turbo trainer on order to help with that.

I'll have a go next Sunday(weather and Sunday lunch dependant!) as I've ridden up it always descended it!

A nice warm up over from haworth before hand!!

Good luck. If there is not a strong unfavourable wind, I reckon that you stand a good chance of getting close to the 20 minute target!

Are those figures from Strava @PaulSB ? If so, are you a subscriber? If you are, you can determine at least the weight range they were in at the time by filtering the leaderboard by weight range (assuming they've put their weight in that is ...).

As to the 20m target, @ColinJ , the closest match to you, by age / weight, of someone who's been up the segment linked above in about 20m is a man in the 75-85kg range, who did it in 19:59m whilst aged 45-55 years, at 320W average (power meter data). The fastest in the 65-69 range is 20m30s (no weight recorded). Sooooo...... it's certainly quite ambitious / challenging.

Ah, so the figure that Bike Calculator came up with sounds fairly reasonable. Difficult, but not (yet!) impossible.

I realise that I probably won't ever hit my target, but it will be fun trying!

 

[ColinJ]

Given the nature of the very gentle gradient and extremely exposed near flat second half, I'd say that wind is key to a fast time, and weather on the day will make far more difference than a marginal increase in effort.

The wind is nearly always a factor, and usually an unfavourable one!

I once took over an hour to get up there when fit, because it was into a 20+ km/hr headwind! One rare occasion, I got a similar speed tailwind and flew up the climb. I didn't time myself that day but I must have been close to 20 minutes.

My goal is 20 minutes on a still day. I don't want help, and I won't manage it with hindrance!

I'd also say that it's a crap climb, enclosed and tedious at the bottom and exposed and very tedious at the top, lacking almost everything that makes for an enjoyable ascent. I can think of about 20 better West Yorkshire climbs off the top of my head!

I can see what you are saying but it is my local climb and suited to my physique. I am too big to be a natural climber but this is more of a power climb. 10+% climbs will always hurt me but on a good day I can really attack this one.

The Cragg Vale climb can be grim on a day with poor weather, at a time when it is busy. On a still, sunny, light traffic day, it can be really nice.

 

[PaulSB]

Shame, because as you’ll know, climb time will be primarily be determined by power to (total) weight ratio. Power on its own can’t tell you that. Are the values from power meters or just Strava random guesses?

I know which are power meters. I'll respond later

Are those figures from Strava @PaulSB ? If so, are you a subscriber? If you are, you can determine at least the weight range they were in at the time by filtering the leaderboard by weight range (assuming they've put their weight in that is ...).

I'll take a look this evening

 

[Jameshow]

No. That is the full length of the climb from the sign in Mytholmroyd; about 1 km longer. The first section is a very shallow drag, maybe at around 1%. The local council make a big thing of it being the longest continuous climb in Britain so they probably need that extra km!

I am sure that my shorter route will have its own segment because it is used on the annual hill climb TT. I don't use Strava though, so perhaps someone else can search for me?


Interesting, thanks.

I have cycled up there with a non-cycling-fit friend and she found it very difficult. We ended up turning left just after the steep bit and going down to a cafe in Sowerby Bridge.

We saw a very impressive sight on the descent. A muscular young man was showing off his physique to his mates. He did a handstand on a wall and started doing multiple rapid vertical press-ups!!!


Yes, I was wondering that too!

When I was otherwise relatively fit, my weight held me back. I was usually 80-85 kg.

At the time I got my first DVT/PE in summer 2012 though, I had ballooned up to over 115 kg so climbing was torture.

I did the climb with a mate on the Sunday that Bradley Wiggins won the TdF. I was already getting ill and took well over an hour to get up there!

The reasons that I have decided to have another go at this now are...

• Realistically, at my age (69), I am running out of time! It will only get harder with every passing year.
• I have got my weight under control. 78.5 kg is one of the lowest weights I have ever been during the winter. I am fairly sure that I can get another 4-6 kg off by the summer. That will give my climbing a real boost.
• I have laid the foundation by doing 3+ rides every week for more than 2 years. I am going to add increased distance and intensity to that consistency. I have a smart turbo trainer on order to help with that.

Good luck. If there is not a strong unfavourable wind, I reckon that you stand a good chance of getting close to the 20 minute target!


Ah, so the figure that Bike Calculator came up with sounds fairly reasonable. Difficult, but not (yet!) impossible.

I realise that I probably won't ever hit my target, but it will be fun trying!

So it's the mythomroyd sign to the top at the reservoir?

 

[ColinJ]

So it's the mythomroyd sign to the top at the reservoir?

The Strava segment mentioned was from that sign for the full climb including the extra km or so (probably more like 800 metres).

The hill climb TT uses the shorter part. I gave a link in post #340 to a cycle.travel route that I created last night. I repeat... HERE! You can download a gpx file from there if you need to.

 

[Jameshow]

The Strava segment mentioned was from that sign for the full climb including the extra km or so (probably more like 800 metres).

The hill climb TT uses the shorter part. I gave a link in post #340 to a cycle.travel route that I created last night. I repeat... HERE! You can download a gpx file from there if you need to.

So which is the 20mins challenge?

 

[ColinJ]

So which is the 20mins challenge?

I have already posted that several times and I want to get out on my bike before the rain and darkness arrive so you will just have to read my last few posts again!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I have already posted that several times and I want to get out on my bike before the rain and darkness arrive so you will just have to read my last few posts again!

Unless you post a Strava segment rather than a gpx nobody else will be easily able to compare.

 

[Sea of vapours]

https://www.strava.com/segments/1187651

Looking at Colin's Cycle.Travel route and the segments available on Cragg Vale, of which there are many, plus Colin's mention of a TT course, I think it's the one above. It's certainly very close indeed to that.

The first nine people on that segment in the 64-69 age group came in under twenty minutes, so there's hope :-)

 

[classic33]

Currently a diversionary route, due to a sinkhole opening in the main road through the valley.

Wouldn't recommend it at this time. Complaints of vehicles speeding in both directions. Road surface has also been damaged.

Would this be the strava segment?

 

[ColinJ]

https://www.strava.com/segments/1187651

Looking at Colin's Cycle.Travel route and the segments available on Cragg Vale, of which there are many, plus Colin's mention of a TT course, I think it's the one above. It's certainly very close indeed to that.

The first nine people on that segment in the 64-69 age group came in under twenty minutes, so there's hope :-)

Excellent - thanks - that's it!

Blimey, so, I would have to get into the top ten... That doesn't sound terribly likely!

I will just have fun nibbling away at it.

The reason that I am going to check my average power as well as time is because the attained speed is so weather-dependent up there. It can easily take 5 minutes off or add 10-15+ minutes on to the total time.

As I have mentioned before... The climb once took me an hour into a ferocious headwind. One rare time there would have been a ferocious tailwind assisting me but I had (typically!) not checked the forecast before setting off and was tackling my loop in the opposite direction... I had to stand and use my lowest gear (39/29) to drag myself down towards Cragg Vale!

If I check my power I will know if I am making progress even if the time is held back by unfavourable winds. And I also won't be blown away (*groan*) by unrealistically low times if a gale from behind had helped me.

My goal is 20 minutes on the TT course, on a pretty much wind-free day. If the water in the reservoir at Blackstone Edge is ripple-free then my time will be realistic. This is a rare occurrence! I would guess that might only happen a few times in a typical year. I will have to check the forecasts to make sure that I don't waste such opportunities.

 

[Sea of vapours]

Blimey, so, I would have to get into the top ten... That doesn't sound terribly likely!

Top ten for what might be called a 'senior' age group though. That said, there are nearly four hundred people in that age group on the TT segment so it's pretty competitive.

I do think you should reconsider the wind thing; not just because it's rare to get a calm day there, but because, for most notable segments, the top of the leaderboard is populated by people trying very hard with a considerable tailwind. I'm afraid that if you're turning into a segment hunter you'll need to comply with the tacit protocol on that one. i.e. I infer that 20m is rather hard, so wind assistance is probably essential. And it's an actual TT course, so people will really have been trying very hard indeed.