Motorsports Thread

[Illaveago]

Hmmm, even his public persona was that of a moaning whingebag. Although I will say, that by the time I encountered him around the circuits, he was trying to grease his sons through the junior formulae. I kept my distance (Mansellmania was something that passed me by), but some of my colleagues on the fenceline were less than enamoured.

It's funny really - when people who don't know me very well (happens often in the cat fancy when you steward for whoever needs a steward) find out I'm a massive motorsport geekette, they always make the assumption that "oh, you must've been a fan of Our Nige."

Confuses the hell out of them when you say no.

Do they suspect when you issue time penalties ?

 

[Illaveago]

It doesn’t work like that.
Hamilton got 10 seconds at silverstone and still won.
Verstappen couldn’t do the fastest lap because of the time penalty so it was a sort of punishment.

IIRC LH time penalty was served in the pits, I may be wrong . Verstappen didn't know of his 10 second time penalty as it was applied after the race when it was discovered that he had applied his brakes causing the crash. This only came to light after studying the telemetry .
The reason why he didn't set a fastest lap was that his tyres were starting to go off.
If a 10 second penalty had been applied and announced during the race it might have made Ocon and Bottas to press harder to perhaps oust him from 2nd place .

 

[matticus]

I think Sky go down the route that Hamilton is English. Like the English footy team or rugby team or any English team. We would expect them to support "our" guys. Nigel Mansell and of course James Hunt were both pretty likeable. And if I`m honest I quite like Hamilton.

Can't believe you've missed out Damon!?!

The loveliest man in motorsport. Evvs. (Although young Jenson is a close second.)

 

[icowden]

I've never really understood why people don't like Hamilton. He seems a nice enough chap. He's doing what he can to promote inclusion and diversity and speaking out (maybe it's that). I thought the driver's approach in Saudi with Hamilton wearing the rainbow helmet and Vettel organising a women only carting event was great. Sometimes he disappears up his own posterior a bit, but he seems likeable to me. Of course he has some arrogance, but you don't get to be the best in the world by saying "no, after you...".

 

[glasgowcyclist]

What I don't get about the Verstappen/Lewis collision is the latter's explanation for not immediately passing.

He is a racer who will seize on any opportunity to overtake, yet here (and stating that he hadn't received the information that Verstappen was giving him back the place) he held back because 'he wasn't sure what was happening'. That doesn't ring true to me. I think he knew Max's strategy was to exploit the DRS activation line and he wasn't falling for it and then Max braked hard, causing the collision.

Like I say, I consider Max as being at fault but I'm not convinced by Lewis's story.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

What I don't get about the Verstappen/Lewis collision is the latter's explanation for not immediately passing.

He is a racer who will seize on any opportunity to overtake, yet here (and stating that he hadn't received the information that Verstappen was giving him back the place) he held back because 'he wasn't sure what was happening'. That doesn't ring true to me. I think he knew Max's strategy was to exploit the DRS activation line and he wasn't falling for it and then Max braked hard, causing the collision.

Like I say, I consider Max as being at fault but I'm not convinced by Lewis's story.

I agree to an extent
but remember that Max was in the middle of the track - and not travelling in a totally straight line

I wonder if Lewis was worried that he would pass - and onece he was committed to a side Max would force him over to the wall

excessive
but ..............

 

[figbat]

I think Lewis has admitted to wanting to capitalise on the DRS line - as I said above, there's no rule saying you have to overtake if you can but there are rules about driver behaviour and reckless/unpredictable driving. Max was swerving about a bit, mid-track and hit the brakes quite hard outside of a braking zone - there's no way that would be expected unless you know that he was giving the place back. Even then I would have expected Lewis to try and stay behind until he had the best strategic advantage of passing (ie after the DRS line).

I believe there should be a rule that forbids overtaking at the corner following a mandatory place swap.

 

[matticus]

What I don't get about the Verstappen/Lewis collision is the latter's explanation for not immediately passing.

He is a racer who will seize on any opportunity to overtake, yet here (and stating that he hadn't received the information that Verstappen was giving him back the place) he held back because 'he wasn't sure what was happening'. That doesn't ring true to me. I think he knew Max's strategy was to exploit the DRS activation line and he wasn't falling for it and then Max braked hard, causing the collision.

Like I say, I consider Max as being at fault but I'm not convinced by Lewis's story.

Yes - that's the widely held view.

I think even an FIA/steward guy included this in a statement?

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I agree to an extent
but remember that Max was in the middle of the track - and not travelling in a totally straight line

I wonder if Lewis was worried that he would pass - and onece he was committed to a side Max would force him over to the wall

excessive
but ..............

The level of mistrust is high. Remember he hadn't had a notification from Mercedes yet so yes, he was absolutely being as cautious as he felt necessary (and sure in the knowledge that he'd be able to pass on track later due to the tyre mismatch)

He later twigged what Max was doing v-a-v DRS I think.

 

[Deleted member 1258]

I've never really understood why people don't like Hamilton. He seems a nice enough chap. He's doing what he can to promote inclusion and diversity and speaking out (maybe it's that). I thought the driver's approach in Saudi with Hamilton wearing the rainbow helmet and Vettel organising a women only carting event was great. Sometimes he disappears up his own posterior a bit, but he seems likeable to me. Of course he has some arrogance, but you don't get to be the best in the world by saying "no, after you...".

I don't know what it is with Hamilton but I'm not a fan of his, there's something about him that I don't like, I'm not sure what it is though, he's a good driver but I can't like him.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I agree to an extent
but remember that Max was in the middle of the track - and not travelling in a totally straight line

That's a feature of practically every overtake on a straight in F1. The driver in front makes it hard for the overtaker to know which line to take and has to commit as late as possible.

And look at the speed differential, Hamilton is catching him hand over fist. I recall the C4 commentator's alarmed reaction at the sudden slowing of Verstappen, that he maybe had a problem with the car. Hamilton's refusal to overtake made no sense unless he realised what was going on, contrary to his subsequent statement.


View: https://youtu.be/Km4em3VHTnE

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Yes - that's the widely held view.

I think even an FIA/steward guy included this in a statement?

This report from GP Fans shows the stewards were given the same story of Hamilton not knowing what was happening (shown in bold).

A stewards' report read: "At turn 21 the driver of car 33 [Verstappen] was given the instruction to give back a position to car 44 [Hamilton] and was told by the team to do so 'strategically'.​

​

"Car 33 slowed significantly at turn 26. However, it was obvious that neither driver wanted to take the lead prior to DRS detection line three.​

​

"The driver of car 33 stated that he was wondering why car 44 had not overtaken and the driver of car 44 stated that, not having been aware at that stage that car 33 was giving the position back, was unaware of the reason car 33 was slowing.​

​

"In deciding to penalise the driver of car 33, the key point for the stewards was that the driver of car 33 then braked suddenly [69 bar] and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration.​

​

"Whilst accepting that the driver of car 44 could have overtaken car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he [and the driver of Car 33] did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS.​

​

"However, the sudden braking by the driver of car 33 was determined by the stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision.​

 

[figbat]

That's a feature of practically every overtake on a straight in F1. The driver in front makes it hard for the overtaker to know which line to take and has to commit as late as possible.

Yes, but that is in the context of a driver defending their position and trying to prevent an overtake. Max was supposed to be allowing and facilitating an overtake, not making it "hard for the overtaker to know which line to take". If he is "making it hard for the overtaker to know which line to take" in this context then he is driving erratically and hence unsafely.

Besides, if he was trying to allow an overtake, why did he then take off after the collision and not give the place back?

PS - kudos to whoever built Lewis's front wing! It took a beating on a couple of occasions but stayed attached and effective.

 

[matticus]

Good find!

This was the bit I was specifically referring to:

"Whilst accepting that the driver of car 44 could have overtaken car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he [and the driver of Car 33] did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Good find!

This was the bit I was specifically referring to:

Hamilton can't have it both ways; he either did or didn't realise that Verstappen was giving him the place back 'strategically'.