Motorsports Thread

[Deleted member 26715]

Alonso to McLaren?

I fear although Ricciardo has a contract for next year, he may not be driving, it's a strange one, something has clearly changed & he's not the force he was, he was the one who could beat Verstappen in a car designed exactly to Verstappen's needs.

 

[classic33]

Alonso to McLaren?

Aston Martin, given that Vettel has hinted at leaving F1 more than once this year.

 

[Beebo]

Can the Isle of Man TT still be justified given the terrible death rate?
Three more deaths this year. The latest one being a very experienced veteran racer. High level pro riders from the track rarely enter the event so it’s left to the semi pro street racers.
1983 is the only year in the modern era that no one died. How is that acceptable?
I know it’s personal choice to get on the bike but sometimes the authorities have to step in.
I’m suspect the authorities on the Isle of Man make considerable money from the event so they have a vested interest in its continuation. But can the racing authorities do anything about it?

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Can the Isle of Man TT still be justified given the terrible death rate?
Three more deaths this year. The latest one being a very experienced veteran racer. High level pro riders from the track rarely enter the event so it’s left to the semi pro street racers.
1983 is the only year in the modern era that no one died. How is that acceptable?
I know it’s personal choice to get on the bike but sometimes the authorities have to step in.
I’m suspect the authorities on the Isle of Man make considerable money from the event so they have a vested interest in its continuation. But can the racing authorities do anything about it?

Perhaps a question for @Dirk who's actually competed there. Me, I think the cost in lives lost is too high.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Nobody is forcing people to do this, it's motorsport it's dangerous, accidents happen, just because you guys don't want to do why should you have the right to stop others doing it? They know the risks, they will also believe it will never happen to them, the loss of life is tragic, but they wanted to do it, next you'll be trying to ban all motorcycle racing, as it is by the fact more dangerous than cars.

 

[Beebo]

Nobody is forcing people to do this, it's motorsport it's dangerous, accidents happen, just because you guys don't want to do why should you have the right to stop others doing it? They know the risks, they will also believe it will never happen to them, the loss of life is tragic, but they wanted to do it, next you'll be trying to ban all motorcycle racing, as it is by the fact more dangerous than cars.

I understand that argument. But lots of things are banned for safety reasons. I’m not big into banning things and wouldn’t want this to be the thin end of the wedge.
All sports have some event of risk, it’s about minimising and controlling that risk. Track racing is far safer and I see no justification for banning that.
I’m a big fan of boxing and would hate to see that banned as it is a true test of fitness, skill and bravery. I know others disagree.

 

[Dirk]

Perhaps a question for @Dirk who's actually competed there. Me, I think the cost in lives lost is too high.

I wouldn't even start to try to justify it.
It's one of those "If you have to ask the question - you would never understand the answer" sort of things.
Sorry, but that's the best I can do. Anyone who's raced in the TT would understand.

 

[matticus]

I understand that argument. But lots of things are banned for safety reasons. I’m not big into banning things and wouldn’t want this to be the thin end of the wedge.
All sports have some event of risk, it’s about minimising and controlling that risk. Track racing is far safer and I see no justification for banning that.
I’m a big fan of boxing and would hate to see that banned as it is a true test of fitness, skill and bravery. I know others disagree.

How do you justify boxing, whilst banning (some) street racing? Boxing is all about hurting the other guy - and you get extra reward if you knock him out! If you deliberately kill someone in the ring there is no sanction.
At least motorsport has no intention to hurt anyone. The vast majority of races - including the majority of IoM races - hurt noone at all. And are enjoyed by thousands just at the circuit, let alone TV audience.
And how about banning high-speed vehicles from public roads? Far more deaths - including spectators sorry pedestrians, children etc.

p.s. you'd never get me to race at the Isle of Man! (although I do enjoy the odd 45mph descent on me pushbike - with no armour) But I know a retired sidecar racer who made a TT podium once. Perfectly nice chap, doesn't come across as negligent, or having a death-wish.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

How do you justify boxing, whilst banning (some) street racing? Boxing is all about hurting the other guy - and you get extra reward if you knock him out! If you deliberately kill someone in the ring there is no sanction.
At least motorsport has no intention to hurt anyone. The vast majority of races - including the majority of IoM races - hurt noone at all. And are enjoyed by thousands just at the circuit, let alone TV audience.
And how about banning high-speed vehicles from public roads? Far more deaths - including spectators sorry pedestrians, children etc.

p.s. you'd never get me to race at the Isle of Man! (although I do enjoy the odd 45mph descent on me pushbike - with no armour) But I know a retired sidecar racer who made a TT podium once. Perfectly nice chap, doesn't come across as negligent, or having a death-wish.

You would be charged with Murder and tried for same.

 

[Beebo]

How do you justify boxing, whilst banning (some) street racing? Boxing is all about hurting the other guy - and you get extra reward if you knock him out! If you deliberately kill someone in the ring there is no sanction.
At least motorsport has no intention to hurt anyone. The vast majority of races - including the majority of IoM races - hurt noone at all. And are enjoyed by thousands just at the circuit, let alone TV audience.
And how about banning high-speed vehicles from public roads? Far more deaths - including spectators sorry pedestrians, children etc.

p.s. you'd never get me to race at the Isle of Man! (although I do enjoy the odd 45mph descent on me pushbike - with no armour) But I know a retired sidecar racer who made a TT podium once. Perfectly nice chap, doesn't come across as negligent, or having a death-wish.

I don’t want to get into a “my sport is safer than your sport” debate.
I have no issue with motorsport, but a single event which has multiple deaths every year seems odd to me. Especially as it’s clearly impossible to introduce any meaningful safety precautions to the track.
If there was a particular boxing tournament where fighters died far more regularly than any other event I would question why.

 

[matticus]

You would be charged with Murder and tried for same.

OK: substitute "killed while delibeartely punching him in the head"

 

[matticus]

I don’t want to get into a “my sport is safer than your sport” debate.
I have no issue with motorsport, but a single event which has multiple deaths every year seems odd to me. Especially as it’s clearly impossible to introduce any meaningful safety precautions to the track.
If there was a particular boxing tournament where fighters died far more regularly than any other event I would question why.

I believe pro boxers suffer dementia (and other long-term head-injury effects) in comparable numbers, if not larger. Seems inevitable in the sport of hit-me-in-the-head.

I know this is all apples-vs-pears stuff, so there can be no correct/perfect answers; but I'm interested in your view. And you did open this can-of-worms, so expect some cross-examination :-)

 

[Beebo]

I believe pro boxers suffer dementia (and other long-term head-injury effects) in comparable numbers, if not larger. Seems inevitable in the sport of hit-me-in-the-head.

I know this is all apples-vs-pears stuff, so there can be no correct/perfect answers; but I'm interested in your view. And you did open this can-of-worms, so expect some cross-examination :-)

It’s true. And plenty of people want to ban boxing.

Boxing is all about hitting and not being hit, the best boxers tend to be the ones who are good at not getting hit. And dementia appears to be a side effect.

But I see pro boxing as being about as safe as it can be without including a head guard. Maybe with modern science the fighters will have to change their sparring methods so that they suffer less head shots in practice. It’s very rare for a novice to go in the ring with a champion. They try to balance out the matches as no one wants to watch a one sided fight. The refs are there to protect the fighters and often get abuse for stopping fights too soon. All fighters are inspected by a doctor as soon as they finish a fight.

MMA is a far more brutal sport, which I don’t enjoy watching. But I do enjoy watching a highly skilled boxer.

I don’t think you will ever stop deaths and i would hate to ban all potentially dangerous sports.
I ran a 10k race once and a chap died at around half way as I ran past. We will never eliminate deaths in sport but we should be seeking to reduce them where possible.

Anyway. Back to motorsport.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Organisers have now confirmed that 52-year-old Norther Irish racer Morgan, a veteran of the TT who’d made his 80th start on Monday, died in the accident.

The man was 52 years old, he was competing in his 80th race on the island & potentially many more elsewhere (I do not know) but he knew the risks & I'm sure in those 79 other attempts he got very close on a few of them & got away with it, unfortunately on this occasion he didn't. Yes it's tragic the loss of life, but the other side is the awesome skill these riders show, it's an amazing spectacle that I've only seen once 50 years ago, so please don't ban it before I get back before I'm too old.

 

[Reynard]

Nobody is forcing people to do this, it's motorsport it's dangerous, accidents happen, just because you guys don't want to do why should you have the right to stop others doing it? They know the risks, they will also believe it will never happen to them, the loss of life is tragic, but they wanted to do it, next you'll be trying to ban all motorcycle racing, as it is by the fact more dangerous than cars.

This.

"Motorsport is Dangerous" is printed on every single ticket issued. And on press passes. As a pro photographer working down on the fenceline, I was effectively signing away any liability. Basically, if I got flattened by an escaped car, then it was my fault for being there. Anyone involved trackside i.e. drivers, riders, marshals and media know the risks. But we do it because it's a passion. You can't just expect us to simply turn that passion off.

The TT is more than just a bike race. It's a whole culture and mindset. And a real rich history behind it. I'm not so into bikes, but historically, there were also similar events for cars - the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio to name but two, dating back to the earliest days of motor racing. They did come to an end in the 1970s, mainly because the cars in the headline classes got far too big and powerful for the roads they raced on. Think Le Mans-type prototypes on UK A and B roads and you kind of get the idea. There's plenty of interesting reading around those road races - think Moss and Jenkinson... If you can get hold of a copy, I highly recommend "From Starting Grid to Checquered Flag" by Paul Frere, which is contemporary to that.

It's less clear cut with bikes as to whether they should be racing on public roads, but simply by their nature, if something goes wrong, serious injury or a fatality is the likely result. It's not just the TT - circuit racing, where you have run offs and techpro barriers and all the other safety features - is equally affected.

I should make it clear that I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has been personally affected by a motor racing fatality. Not a driver error, but a freak mechanical failure that happened in the worst possible place, resulting in the car being pitched head on into an earth bank. It still hurts to think of it even now.