Modify old bike or buy another?

[bonzobanana]

Why buy new, lots of people buy bikes and then get bored of them with very little use. Just check on ebay, gumtree and facebook marketplace for bikes that might interest you perhaps up to 40 miles away and keep watching week by week until an amazing deal is listed. If you are really searching for drivetrain components you can consider any size bike pretty much and use it as a donor bike for stealing parts and sticking them on your bike and then either putting all your old components on this bike and selling it or just selling the unused bits on ebay. If you get it right you might end up with a better bike and a small profit at the end of it. Sometimes very small or very large bikes going ridiculously cheap because its difficult to find a suitable rider nearby. However selling a small or very large frame on ebay may actually sell quite easily which you can post.

I bought an immaculate Giant Defy road bike on ebay for about £80 at auction. It was only Claris but it almost looked new. It was quite awkward as the seller had put it for sale as buy it now, auction and offers and I offered £110 when it had a buy it now for £150 and he said he would rather let the auction run its course and I won it for £80 which was the starting price as no one else bid. It was a £400 new bike only a year or so before. He was moving out of the area as his contract had ended and clearing out his rented house. So he had quite a lot for sale at the time I think mainly furniture. I've heard of people getting better deals than that too. Where I live I find stuff in small villages are more likely to go cheap as less people are interested in travelling to look at them.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Specialized Allez Triple 2006. . . . I've been the performance limit (not the bike).
The gears have finally started to get very "tired", and despite attempts at tuning, it's no longer particularly smooth, and sometimes has trouble shifting.
. . Sora front (52-40-30T) and shifters, and Tiagra rear (8 speed). I don't know if it has the capability to run disc brakes.
would it be worth trying to fit - say - Shimano 105 parts to a near 20 year old bike?

You don't say but roughly how many miles a week/month/year have you been riding this? Any idea?
When (number of months and/or miles ago) did you last replace:

• Chain?
• Cassette?
• Gear cables, including outers?

What do you mean by tuning? Turning the rear derailleur (RD) adjuster?
As said above redoing that lot will almost certainly rejuvenate the accuracy and assurance of shifting.
Disc brakes not an option without much pain (rear OLD of 130mm, would need new fork for front). Delete.
The RD is Tiagra and actually part of a 9sp groupset (probably RD-4500) - the shift ratio is the same for 8, 9 and 10sp (except 4700).
Moving to 9sp would require new RH STI (Sora), new LH STI (only if you want to keep them looking a pair) (+ bar tape, probably) and a new (9sp) cassette + chain. All this gives you is one more sprocket in the same range (eg 11-28t) but if it scratches the 'upgrading itch': money well spent.
The freehub will take 8, 9 or 10sp cassettes.
No, you cannot fit 105 (11sp) stuff without replacing nearly everything (including rear wheel). Really not worth it. Buy a new (to you) bike with 11sp. Plenty out there below a grand, pre-loved.
Looking on the For Sale: this, just as an example as post a year old (and only done 4000 miles in 5 years, and they call it 'well used'!)
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/2...n-road-bike-m-l-ultegra-groupset-used.291459/

 

[wafter]

I'd be inclined to go to one of two extremes - either spend as little as possible to keep the existing bike going, or bin it off and chuck a good wedge at a universally-nicer replacment.

What you don't want to do IMO is throw a load of money at fitting a brand new, high-end groupset.. The bike sounds entry-level and probably worth next to nothing now. I had a 2004 Giant of very similar spec that has since expired due to a cracked frame; which raises the next questions of how much longer yours is likely to last, and as touched on by a few how much you can continue to trust the composite bits to give ongoing safe service.

My Giant made a decent utility hack with a few budget maintenance items (chain, cassette) until the frame gave up. You could probably sort yours out by replacing bits peacemeal - check the chain for wear with an appropriate tool or measuring device, inspect the cassette and chainrings for wear, see how slick the cables are... replace as appropriate. My Giant had a problem with cable friction preventing the levers from returning; but this was resolved on the cheap by pulling the cable inners and coating them in wax.

Also be aware that newer doesn't necessarily mean better - 8sp components are a good workhorse and usually a lot cheaper than the latest-spec gear. further, if you've not noticed sadly triples are sadly no longer a thing on road bikes so anything you buy new (groupset or bike) will have a double. I miss my triple, so if you feel similarly "upgrading" to a double could be a backwards step.

One area I do find much improved over the old Giant is shifters - it had (IIRC) Sora 2300, which had the little ears on the insides of the units to down-shift, rather than the separate paddle beneath the brake lever, which is ergonomically horrible. You could replace these with Claris items for not a huge amount of money - especially if you're prepared to bide your time and look for discounted / used bargains.

The counter to all this is that the used road bike market is still hammered so you'd probably get something quite nice of a similar / better spec for not a huge amount of money... I'm all for keeping old stuff going, but ally / composite frames will only keep going for so long.

 

[Ajax Bay]

You could probably sort yours out by replacing bits piecemeal - check the chain for wear with an appropriate tool or measuring device, inspect the cassette and chainrings for wear, see how slick the cables are... replace as appropriate. My Giant had a problem with cable friction preventing the levers from returning; but this was resolved on the cheap by pulling the cable inners and coating them in wax.

To the OP:
Don't check anything: just get on and change cables (inner AND outer), or get your LBS to. Then, only if there's skating change cassette and chain.
The chain rings will be fine (and not affect shifting). On a triple the middle is most used and needs replacing first, after at least 20,000km, and I'm guessing your bike has not yet seen that.
Do not coat cables with wax. Decent stainless steel cables and modern outers need no additional lubrication (and wax may actually increase friction). [Edited] If you resist replacing sticking cables, dribble some light oil (eg 3in1) into the outer's ferrules at every brazed on stop, "as supported by my experience" .

 

[wafter]

Do not coat cables with wax. Decent stainless steel cables and modern outers need no additional lubrication (and wax may actually increase friction). If you must, dribble some GT85/WD40 into the outer's ferrules at every brazed on stop.

Worn out cables can benefit from additional lubrication, as supported by my experience. Wax made the difference between non-functional and functional for the period between application and the bike's death; saving time, money and wastage when the bike was scrapped.

If you're going to can the cables anyway without even inspecting them first, where's the harm in attempting a quick, practically free remedy?

WD40 isn't a lubricant to begin with, and will dry to a thick tacky coating over time that will definitely increase friction and destroy cable operation.

 

[Ajax Bay]

I give you that rusty cables will benefit from any lubricant. Last time I had 'your problem' but didn't want to replace, I dribbled household 3in1 oil into both ends of each section of outer. I'll amend my post above to that (removing the WD40 swear word).

 

[fritz katzenjammer]

We get people through our shop pretty regularly who spend loads upgrading their old bikes. New is awfully nice but if you like the ride and it’s still in good shape why not update. There’s a good chance it won’t accept discs but then there is nothing wrong with a good set of rim brakes.

Plus you’ll be keeping some material out of the landfill.

 

[wafter]

I give you that rusty cables will benefit from any lubricant. Last time I had 'your problem' but didn't want to replace, I dribbled household 3in1 oil into both ends of each section of outer. I'll amend my post above to that (removing the WD40 swear word).

I think the problem with mine was that the outers had PTFE linings that had rubbed through at the rads, causing metal-metal contact. The wax was evidently enough to cut friction in this area enough for the springs in the levers to overcome it.

Much like with chains, I suspect oil's good at preventing / mitigating the effects of water ingress but risks dragging in particular contamination... while wax is the opposite.

When I did the cables on the Routier I actively looked for unlined jobs but couldn't find any. Just like everything else it seems that components that are "basic but last forever with a bit of maintenance" have been replaced with "more complex, short-lived and environmentally dubious for the sake of convenience".. In the end I stripped, cleaned and waxed the cables; which are still going strong more than 35 years after they were first used

 

[Gillstay]

Having just done up two bikes I think people are very correct that 250 notes will make a big difference.

One I upgraded to Tiagra 10 speed and this was not as good a change as the other that I took from a 8 speed to 9. Plus a lot more expense.

Both were better improved by

Good choice of cogs to suit my situation.

Good quality pads and well serviced brakes.

Quality cables carefully shortened to closer to the min needed so less friction and more feel.

 

[fossyant]

My best/only MTB is a 1996 bike that has been upgraded at various point in it's life and still kicks-ass on the trails. The bike just suits me so I stick with it despite repeated searches for a replacement. Nothing else floats my boat so I keep the money in my pocket and enjoy a discreet smirk when I pass another rider on the latest bike with all the gear but not going anywhere fast. I know it's petty but some people seem to think that spending mega dollar on the latest tech will get the best ride, but you can't re-invent the wheel and a good bike will always be a good bike so if your Allez suits you then give it some TLC and carry on enjoying the miles.....

This - I'm commuting on a 90's MTB, and all you need to do is replace chain, worn chain rings, cassette, jockey wheels and new cables throughout (Shimano SP41 gear cables are the best). That said, my newest bike is 8 years old, one that's 12 years od (bought last year) and the other three are over 30.

 

[Chislenko]

To the OP. If you do go down the route of rebuilding and are thinking of replacing your Chainset with like for like I have a barely used 52-42-30 spare which would be a lot cheaper than the ones you will see advertised.

Come to think of it I have a pair of hardly used Askium wheels as well which will fit an 8 speed.

 

[DCLane]

Wheel compatibility is news to me (I didn't know that could be a problem). So, a 12 speed 105 rear cassette might not work? How would I be able to check compatibility?

Not desperate for disc brakes. The original rim brakes on the Allez were terrible, but replacement pads fixed that. It looks as though all of the current 7100 series 105 shifters are for hydraulic disc brakes; so I assume I'd have to either go for a "lower" range, or a previous generation 105 (the 5800 series appears to support rim brakes).

If your Allez is 8 speed then the wheels will be compatible to 10 speed. Beyond that they're not always compatible; when the cassette is removed it'll state '11 speed' on the freehub if it can take an 11 speed cassette. 12 speed requires different wheels entirely.

I doubt your bike is disc-brake compatible without significant work; it'd need mounts for the disc brake set-up and an entirely different groupset. Personally, if you're preferring disc brakes, I'd suggest it's an entirely different bike you need.

In terms of older groupsets then Ultegra 6800 and 8000 make a nice set-up for a reasonable sum if you're looking at 11 speed. I use that on my winter bike and 11 speed Dura-Ace 9000 on the summer bikes. Shimano 105 5800 is fine as well.

If it's 10 speed then the Ultegra 6700 bits are available, but shifters can be pricey so you may need to go for 105 5700 shifters. Tiagra 4600 is compatible with this but Tiagra 4700 is entirely different and is only compatible with itself. Just be careful or you could be caught out.

My suggestion:

- Keep the Allez if it fits you.
- If you're on a budget start with a new chain and new inner/outer cables. Like @Ajax Bay has put it'd make a massive difference.
- Allocate part of the money for a new/lightly used wheelset, which will make a big difference.
- Use the rest to either replace the 8 speed set-up you've got with 8 speed Claris parts or move to 10/11 speed second-hand as preferred.

I see you're in Yorkshire. It may be worth joining the Yorkshire Cycling Sales FB group and posting a 'wanted' advert on there - there's some 'nice' kit, there's some junk but most are decent individuals. If you're anywhere near Dewsbury and would like to see the difference, or get your wheelset checked for 11 speed compatibility, then drop me a PM on here (we've 10 speed Tiagra [for a few weeks until upgraded]/Ultegra/Dura-Ace, 11 speed 105 [disc]/Ultegra/Dura-Ace on the bikes son no. 2 and myself have).

 

[sploo]

So many detailed replies I don't even know where to start (but I have read them all - many thanks).

Trying to answer the main points:

Because West Yorkshire is basically vertical, I find myself constantly changing gears; ironically often not spending much time on the middle front ring; as I'm either doing 5km/h up a hill in the lowest gear, or 50km/h down a hill in (not quite the) highest gear. As such, I was thinking that a 2 speed front with 10, 11 or 12 speed rear would make more sense.

I also like the idea of a 50/34T front and 11-36T rear; though in reality a 48/32T front would be more appropriate for my low gear needs, and more than enough for faster speeds.

I replaced the chain and rear cassette about 5 years ago. I went from the original 12-25T cassette to a 11-30T to make the hills easier (though a 12-30T would likely have been better). The gear cables and outers are the originals (though I keep them well oiled).

By "tuning" I was just meaning adjusting the limit screws and fine adjusters to try to get reliable shifting across the full range. Even with that the bike struggles between the middle and smallest front chain ring, and frequently seems to end up between two chain rings (thinking about it now: maybe that's a "sticky" gear cable?)

As for the wheelset; I do recall when I bought the bike one criticism in reviews was the Alex DA1 rims. What specifically would be improved by getting better wheels (e.g. the Vision 30, as mentioned by Chislenko)?

I understand that over the years the Shimano ranges have generally improved (such that a 2024 Tiagra should be better than my 2006 Tiagra)? Part of the reason I wanted to upgrade was that I've never been able to shift under power on this bike. I have an older mountain bike that was twice the price 5 years earlier (so a higher level groupset). That's never had any problems shifting under load, and has always been much smoother. But I don't have any experience with modern (or better) road bike groupsets.

I'm just north east of Leeds, so not a huge trek from Dewsbury.

 

[Jameshow]

So many detailed replies I don't even know where to start (but I have read them all - many thanks).

Trying to answer the main points:

Because West Yorkshire is basically vertical, I find myself constantly changing gears; ironically often not spending much time on the middle front ring; as I'm either doing 5km/h up a hill in the lowest gear, or 50km/h down a hill in (not quite the) highest gear. As such, I was thinking that a 2 speed front with 10, 11 or 12 speed rear would make more sense.

I also like the idea of a 50/34T front and 11-36T rear; though in reality a 48/32T front would be more appropriate for my low gear needs, and more than enough for faster speeds.

I replaced the chain and rear cassette about 5 years ago. I went from the original 12-25T cassette to a 11-30T to make the hills easier (though a 12-30T would likely have been better). The gear cables and outers are the originals (though I keep them well oiled).

By "tuning" I was just meaning adjusting the limit screws and fine adjusters to try to get reliable shifting across the full range. Even with that the bike struggles between the middle and smallest front chain ring, and frequently seems to end up between two chain rings (thinking about it now: maybe that's a "sticky" gear cable?)

As for the wheelset; I do recall when I bought the bike one criticism in reviews was the Alex DA1 rims. What specifically would be improved by getting better wheels (e.g. the Vision 30, as mentioned by Chislenko)?

I understand that over the years the Shimano ranges have generally improved (such that a 2024 Tiagra should be better than my 2006 Tiagra)? Part of the reason I wanted to upgrade was that I've never been able to shift under power on this bike. I have an older mountain bike that was twice the price 5 years earlier (so a higher level groupset). That's never had any problems shifting under load, and has always been much smoother. But I don't have any experience with modern (or better) road bike groupsets.

I'm just north east of Leeds, so not a huge trek from Dewsbury.

I have both double and triple chainset bikes.
My everyday bike Cannondale carbon, has a double 59/34 by11-36.

It's great for everyday riding audax etc. I can get up fleet moss with them.

My winter bike and touring bikes are triples which are great because in the flat you have the middle rings, but with hills or with baggage the small chainring is a blessing!

If you want to try one and your average size we could meet up for a ride?

 

[DCLane]

Unlike @Jameshow pretty much every bike I have runs a 52/36 double and an 11/28 rear cassette. It's OK on almost every gradient. Mine are medium sized as well.