Misguided Cycling Safety Campaigns

[MichaelW2]

Cycling advice from safety advocates rarely touches on roadcraft, probably the most effective way of minimising cars crashing into you.

 

[Jameshow]

Now writing the Air Ambulance safety advice

Let's be seeing it!!🤣🤣🤣

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Let's be seeing it!!🤣🤣🤣

Well we’ll need to wait on Mad Murdock won’t we!

 

[Punkawallah]

In one year, more pedestrians were killed by falling helicopters than by cyclists.

Which year would this be? I’d like to know if I’ve missed it.

 

[Dogtrousers]

In one year, more pedestrians were killed by falling helicopters than by cyclists.

I'm slightly suspicious of this stat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_helicopters gives us from Helicopter crashes in the UK. The page also lists ground casualties where relevant so it should pick up pedestrians killed by falling helicopters.

1981 North Sea. 13 dead. Kind of unlikely that any pedestrians were wandering around the North Sea at the time.
2018 Leicester city. 5 dead. No ground casualties listed.

Edit: The original stat doesn't claim "in the UK"!! So maybe there was a huge incident somewhere were a load of pedestrians were killed.

 

[mjr]

Cycling advice from safety advocates rarely touches on roadcraft, probably the most effective way of minimising cars crashing into you.

I hope it's true but I don't think there's much evidence that trained riders are injured less. Probably because the worst injuries really aren't often the victim's fault.

 

[Punkawallah]

I hope it's true but I don't think there's much evidence that trained riders are injured less. Probably because the worst injuries really aren't often the victim's fault.

This thing about evidence is that it’s not there unless you collect it? I’d argue that someone ‘trained’ to ride defensively would be less likely injured than someone ignoring the Highway Code.
I’d agree that the worst injuries are often the fault of other road users. Or at least that the evidence points that way, because road traffic accidents are recorded.

 

[mjr]

This thing about evidence is that it’s not there unless you collect it?

I'm sure it has been collected and I've seen it, but it's not promoted by cycle trainers because it didn't show what was hoped. I'm not sure where to find it again.

I'd still advocate training as a social measure, reducing how much you annoy other cyclists and walkers by behaving more predictably, but I can't honestly back it as a safety measure unless I see more evidence.

 

[Mr Celine]

I'm slightly suspicious of this stat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_helicopters gives us from Helicopter crashes in the UK. The page also lists ground casualties where relevant so it should pick up pedestrians killed by falling helicopters.

1981 North Sea. 13 dead. Kind of unlikely that any pedestrians were wandering around the North Sea at the time.
2018 Leicester city. 5 dead. No ground casualties listed.

Edit: The original stat doesn't claim "in the UK"!! So maybe there was a huge incident somewhere were a load of pedestrians were killed.

2013. Seven killed plus three in the helicopter when it landed on the Clutha Bar in Glasgow after running out of fuel.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

This thing about evidence is that it’s not there unless you collect it? I’d argue that someone ‘trained’ to ride defensively would be less likely injured than someone ignoring the Highway Code.

Injuries are caused by those in motorised vehicles. You are driving and come across someone a bike whose behaviour you can’t predict. What are you more likely do in this situation?

 

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

I'm not sure many drivers know what to do when they see a cyclist, irrespective of whether or not they are riding predictably.

Was there not a recent study that highlighted this?

 

[raleighnut]

Last year I was near home when a car turned into the street behind me, as I needed to turn right to my gate I indicated my intention to do so only for the car to begin to overtake. Cue panic braking all round and a swift turn to the left by me narrowly avoiding the car. the drivers excuse "You waved me past" I doubt she'd ever seen a cyclist indicate a right turn before.

 

[Alex321]

Injuries are caused by those in motorised vehicles.

*Some* injuries are caused by those in motorised vehicles.

Other injuries are caused by cyclists falling off all by themselves, or if riding in groups, by collisions between cyclists in the group (by far the most common way racing cyclists end up rubber-side up).

 

[Alex321]

I'm not sure many drivers know what to do when they see a cyclist, irrespective of whether or not they are riding predictably.

I think that depends a lot on whereabouts you are, how commonplace cyclists on the road are, and other factors.

In the Vale of Glamorgan, it really is quite rare to have issues with motor vehicles IME. But it is also rare that I go out either on the bike or in the car, without coming across other cyclists.

So almost all drivers are used to the fact they are likely to come across cyclists here, and most have learned to act appropriately.

Probably also helped by the fact it is quite an affluent area, so you don't get as many of the thuggish types who might deliberately force others off the road.

Was there not a recent study that highlighted this?

Possibly, but where was it carried out?

 

[mjr]

*Some* injuries are caused by those in motorised vehicles.

Other injuries are caused by cyclists falling off all by themselves, or if riding in groups, by collisions between cyclists in the group (by far the most common way racing cyclists end up rubber-side up).

*Most* injuries are caused by those in motorised vehicles.