Marshalling on large group rides...

[Mazz]

I've been on Friday Night Rides to the Coast with around 100 or so, but that's exceptional. Anyway The Fridays approach is to stop at red lights, allow the ride to become fragmented, and have regular regroups. A rider is dropped off at each junction to point the way and make sure everyone follows the route. They rejoin the ride when the back marker arrives. That system works very well. It also allows different paced groups to form on the road.

Yep, regrouping points - this sounds like the best thing to do. Good point too about allowing clustering of different paces.

 

[Regular.Cyclist]

I was doing a small group ride in north Wales with Ed Clancy a number of years ago. A couple of riders went off the front of the group on a steep descent and had failed to head the warnings of a sharp left turn at the bottom.

One rider failed to stop and smashed into the banking at the side of the road. When I arrived at the scene it was chaos with no one obviously taking control. After making sure that the casualty was being safely dealt with I directed someone to phone the ambulance whilst I took the role of traffic management.

The road was two narrow lanes, one in each direction, and it was pretty obvious that traffic building up either side of the incident would prevent an emergency vehicle reaching the scene. Simple traffic conductor signaling to the drivers got them moving in a controlled manner, keeping the route clear. Every driver, without exception, was very compliant with my signalling despite having no legal obligation to do so.

 

[T4tomo]

I was doing a small group ride in north Wales with Ed Clancy a number of years ago. A couple of riders went off the front of the group on a steep descent and had failed to head the warnings of a sharp left turn at the bottom.

One rider failed to stop and smashed into the banking at the side of the road. When I arrived at the scene of was chaos with no one obviously taking control. After making sure that the casualty was being safely dealt with I directed someone to phone the ambulance whilst I took the role of traffic management.

The road was two narrow lanes, one in each direction, and it was pretty obvious that traffic building up either side of the incident would prevent an emergency vehicle reaching the scene. Simple traffic conductor signaling to the drivers got them moving in a controlled manner, keeping the route clear. Every driver, without exception, was very compliant with my signalling despite having no legal obligation to do so.

That's a bit different when actively directing traffic around an incident to prevent a free for all, which usually results in gridlock.

As people say, you have no right to stop the traffic for a open road sportive, and especially with if there are big numbers, you do run the risk of making things worse by stopping traffic, rather than encouraging riders to follow the rules of the road and give way at junctions.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Post deleted but not forgotten.

 

[lazybloke]

You have no powers with regards the traffic, regardless of with whom you may be accredited, unless you are...
a) a constable in uuniform or assisting a constable in uniform,
b) a contractor with the necessary permits/TRO, or
c) the road is subject to a formal authorised closure, such as when the Velo soprtives were running, at which time they temporarily cease to be a highway.
You can make a request to traffic with the necessary signage etc, but If it goes wrong, guess who's balls get served up on a barbed wire plate to the magistrate?
I've done some marshaling, and between the arrishole car drivers and the arrishole riders I won't ever do any more.

The RideLondon route is closed by temporary traffic regulation orders, but what happens where traffic is allowed to cross the route? eg where the open St Barnabus Road crosses the closed Broadmead Road near Walthamstow (streeview link HERE )?I

I cycled through that junction just as a driver got fed up with waiting - he revved and weaved through the bikes, vanishing into the distance leaving the smell of hot clutch plates hanging in the air.

In my dreams, a NIP arrived through his letterbox a few days later for careless or dangerous driving.
And potentially a fine/points for not complying with the TTRO, assuming the paperwork had been correctly submitted, and the signposting was as required.


Or would a TTRO specifically exclude that junction to allow traffic to cross there?

 

[mjr]

You have no powers with regards the traffic, regardless of with whom you may be accredited, unless [...stuff not applicable...]

You can make a request to traffic with the necessary signage etc, but If it goes wrong, guess who's balls get served up on a barbed wire plate to the magistrate?

The disobedient drivers! It may have changed in 2016 with the new Traffic Signs Regs and General Directions, but the STOP sign deployed by BC accredited marshals (Schedule 13 Part 6 Item 18 Diagram 633.1) is currently a compulsory sign under the Road Traffic Regulation Act and disobeying the STOP is as slam-dunk an offence as wrongsiding a traffic island or jumping a red light.

In other words, while the marshals may not directly have powers over traffic, the STOP sign they use does.

It's worth remembering that the government sports and culture department appoints some BC directors at the moment, so it gets legal powers that no-one else has.

I've done some marshaling, and between the arrishole car drivers and the arrishole riders I won't ever do any more.

Completely understandable.

 

[mjr]

The RideLondon route is closed by temporary traffic regulation orders, but what happens where traffic is allowed to cross the route? eg where the open St Barnabus Road crosses the closed Broadmead Road near Walthamstow (streeview link HERE )?I

You've used an app link which won't open for non-Googlers, but from the map, the roads seem to meet, so I guess the crossing point is either part of the TTRO traffic management plan or totally at the discretion of the organisers (because they don't want to upset too many people and have more objections to their future events).

In my dreams, a NIP arrived through his letterbox a few days later for careless or dangerous driving.
And potentially a fine/points for not complying with the TTRO, assuming the paperwork had been correctly submitted, and the signposting was as required.

Or would a TTRO specifically exclude that junction to allow traffic to cross there?

I don't see any reason why the TTRO would exclude that junction (there's plenty of ways round, some convoluted but not especially long), so if it was reported to the police with CCTV or whatever, they'd probably look at the simpler offence of disobeying a valid TTRO and not bother with the careless or dangerous driving if no-one was hurt.

 

[Drago]

The RideLondon route is closed by temporary traffic regulation orders, but what happens where traffic is allowed to cross the route? eg where the open St Barnabus Road crosses the closed Broadmead Road near Walthamstow (streeview link HERE )?I

I cycled through that junction just as a driver got fed up with waiting - he revved and weaved through the bikes, vanishing into the distance leaving the smell of hot clutch plates hanging in the air.

In my dreams, a NIP arrived through his letterbox a few days later for careless or dangerous driving.
And potentially a fine/points for not complying with the TTRO, assuming the paperwork had been correctly submitted, and the signposting was as required.


Or would a TTRO specifically exclude that junction to allow traffic to cross there?

You'd have to read the specific TRO, but of all the ones I've seen over the years I've never come across one that permits motor traffic to cross.

When a road is closed it ceases to be a highway for a duration of the order, and at best commits the offence of driving other than on a road, or at worst serious injury by dangerous driving, as the driver did at Velo Midlands when he ignored the closure and broke a marshals hip.

 

[Dogtrousers]

You'd have to read the specific TRO, but of all the ones I've seen over the years I've never come across one that permits motor traffic to cross.

When a road is closed it ceases to be a highway for a duration of the order, and at best commits the offence of driving other than on a road, or at worst serious injury by dangerous driving, as the driver did at Velo Midlands when he ignored the closure and broke a marshals hip.

There were a few points on RL where an open road crossed the route. One I can remember on the road through Epping Forest, at a big roundabout, the one mentioned in the post above and possibly others I'm not sure. There were marshals stopping the ride and directing the traffic.

 

[Drago]

The disobedient drivers! It may have changed in 2016 with the new Traffic Signs Regs and General Directions, but the STOP sign deployed by BC accredited marshals (Schedule 13 Part 6 Item 18 Diagram 633.1) is currently a compulsory sign under the Road Traffic Regulation Act and disobeying the STOP is as slam-dunk an offence as wrongsiding a traffic island or jumping a red light.

Thwts a very common misconception.

Section 36(1) RTA 1988 - the offence is only committed if the sign was lawfully placed on or near a road.

It's not a "slam dunk", or more correctly an "absolute offence", because a defence does exist in law if the sign was not "lawfully" placed there. It'd be for a Court to decide that based upon the circumstances of any particular case.

36(2) clarifies this further:

(2)A traffic sign shall not be treated for the purposes of this section as having been lawfully placed unless either—

(a)the indication given by the sign is an indication of a statutory prohibition, restriction or requirement, or

(b)it is expressly provided by or under any provision of the Traffic Acts that this section shall apply to the sign or to signs of a type of which the sign is one; (I'll help you out - there is no relevant provision for these circs)

and, where the indication mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection is of the general nature only of the prohibition, restriction or requirement to which the sign relates, a person shall not be convicted of failure to comply with the indication unless he has failed to comply with the prohibition, restriction or requirement to which the sign relates.

This applies as equally to stop signs as it does no entry, weight restriction or speed limit signs. Merely being in possission of a sign of the lawfully prescribed type does not automatically confer any obligation upon a road user to obey it - the circumstances have to fall under S36(2)(a) or S36(2)(b) as detailed above, otherwise a road user contravening it commits no offence. The 2016 regulations do not usurp the wider RTA, which dictates where 'how' and 'where'rather than the specification.

 

[Jameshow]

I have stopped the traffic on many occasions....







I was a school crossing man!
Boy did the power go to my head!🤣🤣

 

[oldwheels]

I did a bit of marshalling at cyclocross events where the course was over a roadway at one point.
This was a dead end road and so very little traffic and all drivers knew the event was taking place so no problem.
No bike related but at Littlemill distillery there was a hump in the road so restricting forward view. Lorries manoeuvring took a bit of time and were out of sight of oncoming traffic while the road was blocked. I sent somebody to the top of the rise to slow oncoming traffic. Some just ignored the warnings and left long rubber streaks on the road surface. One rammed a black ford zephyr with 4 members of what we called the “black squad “ of customs men which had stopped. Oh dear.

 

[mjr]

(b)it is expressly provided by or under any provision of the Traffic Acts that this section shall apply to the sign or to signs of a type of which the sign is one; [/COLOR](I'll help you out - there is no relevant provision for these circs)

Why do you think the provision "Section 36 of the 1988 Act applies to the sign" in the TSRGD section "Provisions applying to signs in Part 6" made under RTRA (which is one of the Traffic Acts named in section 192 of RTA) is not relevant?

And please don't use blue bold because it is difficult to read.