London proposal to ban thousands of lorries

[subaqua]

it the culture within construction that allows designers (be they Architects, Civil Engineers or Structural Engineers) to forget about injuries and deaths off site, that allows contractors not to submit risk assessments for transport as opposed to just deliveries, that allows the HSE to say 'nothing to do with us, guv) and that allows companies like Thames Materials on the road because the designers don't say 'you must not employ these people'. It goes from top to bottom, and the only way to stop it is via the Contract. Quite how the Mayor gets to sort this out remains to be seen, but my hope is that every planning permission will come with a condition that requires all hauliers to pass a test of some sort to get on an approved list, and that some clever lawyer sees fit to launch an action on behalf of the relatives of a person killed by a tipper lorry not just at the lorry driver, but at the designers who failed to do their job.

so similar to what Crossrail have , with FORS Gold. that hasn't stopped things sadly. it should ultimately end with the designers. that i do agree with. it might stop them doing silly stuff with the building let alone the getting the materials to site. it would certainly remove the urge to get things done as cheap as possible after cutting costs way past the bone to win work.

 

[hatler]

it the culture within construction that allows designers (be they Architects, Civil Engineers or Structural Engineers) to forget about injuries and deaths off site, that allows contractors not to submit risk assessments for transport as opposed to just deliveries, that allows the HSE to say 'nothing to do with us, guv and that allows companies like Thames Materials on the road because the designers don't say 'you must not employ these people'. It goes from top to bottom, and the only way to stop it is via the Contract. Quite how the Mayor gets to sort this out remains to be seen, but my hope is that every planning permission will come with a condition that requires all hauliers to pass a test of some sort to get on an approved list, and that some clever lawyer sees fit to launch an action on behalf of the relatives of a person killed by a tipper lorry not just at the lorry driver, but at the designers who failed to do their job.

I successfully badgered my previous (sizeable) employer to change their contract letting procedures for building works so that truck operators' safety records on the road were taken into account. Any large client hoping to carry out major construction work with the merest hint of any sense of CSR should be an easy touch. But its a long-winded way to go about getting a global improvement. Legislation is the key, so all credit to Khan (or more likely, whoever has told Khan that this is something which must be done).

 

[marknotgeorge]

Before my dad retired, he was a HGV driver. Before that, an international coach driver. Before that, a bus driver. Before that, he drove ambulances, and he also drve trucks in the Army. He's a driver. And he was wary of tippers.

One of our clients is a sort-of broker for tipper drivers, I think (I've never quite got to the bottom of it). His books, which come in in two large plastic crates, are labyrinthine. Some people are both debtors and creditors, and there are loans and discounts flying about all over the place.

This morning, I noticed a Tarmac artic. Bright, white and relatively shiny. I also noticed the writing telling me it's owned by a franchisee haulier. Even at this end of the carrying mucky stuff to and from construction sites there's sub-contracting, with all the buck-passing and obfuscation that goes along with it.

Carrying muck about is mucky business, in more ways than one.

 

[RoubaixCube]

I'm afraid you're both wrong

Ummm, excuse me...



Is this not the cyclists fault for getting himself into a potentially fatal predicament in the first place?? Its unfair to lay the blame solely on the lorry driver when you have cyclists like these. Hence why i said its a bit of both. Ive seen situations like these many times and even called out to the cyclists not to do that just like the gentleman in the video. Some people listen, some people dont.

Drivers arent perfect and nor are cyclists. but just having a little common sense and/or road safety awareness can work wonders for both sides.

 

[hatler]

That is undoubtedly a very stupid cyclist. However, dellzeqq's assertion was about what type of truck kills an overwhelming majority of cyclists (at least on London's roads), and in the video clip that cyclist does look to be alive. To put it another way, that one video clip isn't enough to draw a global conclusion.

 

[marknotgeorge]

Safe road use requires both the attitude and competence to do the right thing, and the ability to deal with those that can't or won't do the first. Education is fine as far as it goes, but if vehicle design stops you dealing with the foulups, then it needs to change.

 

[dellzeqq]

and, let's just give the haulage industry a big pat on the back. Truck driving in my part of the world has improved out of sight in the last twenty or thirty years. Employers such as ASDA, Sainsbury's, Cemex (the latter after an avoidable tragedy) have clearly put a lot of effort in to raising standards. In the case of Cemex the trucks are fitted with sensors. Now..............if they can do it, why can't the owners of tipper lorries?

I read @marknotgeorge post. He has it right. But, again, the culture is there from the get-go. People in my line of work routinely draw underground parking because the agents tell clients they've got to have such-and-such a number of spaces. I can tell you from practical experience that writing a risk assessment that follows the usual eliminate/mitigate route, and, in doing so, shifts the decision back to the client is not a great way to get on in the world - and, until the RIBA gets interested (which it may be forced to do, now that Sadiq Khan is on the case) those letters will be in short supply.

 

[Pete Owens]

I guess that would be because there are relatively effective lobbying groups keeping the cyclists' deaths in the public eye. There is no real equivalent for pedestrians, other than the ramblers association.

The equivalent group for pedestrians would be Living streets:
https://www.livingstreets.org.uk/
They are rather smarter than some cycling groups in that they have worked out that if you are trying to encourage people to walk then constantly banging on about how unpleasant and dangerous it is would be counterproductive.

 

[hatler]

TfL have launched the online consultation about 'direct vision' trucks.

It only takes a couple of minutes to complete.

 

[mjr]

TfL have launched the online consultation about 'direct vision' trucks.

It only takes a couple of minutes to complete.

Correct link is https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/direct-vision-standard-phase-1/consultation/intro/

 

[mjr]

Correct link is https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/direct-vision-standard-phase-1/consultation/intro/

All the flipping options for who should control the standard are motorists - I think the list offered was: HGV operators; HGV manufacturers; TfL; No opinion; and Other (write in). Please write in that you want vulnerable user groups represented in the standard's development.

 

[hatler]

Correct link is https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/direct-vision-standard-phase-1/consultation/intro/

Whoops ! Thanks for that. Now corrected.

 

[hatler]

All the flipping options for who should control the standard are motorists - I think the list offered was: HGV operators; HGV manufacturers; TfL; No opinion; and Other (write in). Please write in that you want vulnerable user groups represented in the standard's development.

Yup. Pretty poor that I thought. My response was that this should be a governmental body with a nationwide remit.