London proposal to ban thousands of lorries

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srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Except at night.
At the moment (and, as far as I can tell, until the end of time), night is needed for maintenance and development. And, sensibly, there are restrictions on traffic movements during the night to minimise noise.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
And before the use of the mass use of lorries to transport them, they would have been been transported by railways, it was never the customers decision to transport them by road.
In the era when railways were big in freight carriage, the delivery from rail freight depot to customer was by horse and cart.
 

simongt

Guru
Location
Norwich
In the era when railways were big in freight carriage, the delivery from rail freight depot to customer was by horse and cart
Indeed, It was privately owned lorries 'door to door' ability that won favour over rail, plus they could accept / refuse any load wheras until the mid late 20th century, the railways were legally obliged to carry ANYTHING they were offered under the common carrier law.
 

Buddfox

Veteran
Location
London
It's difficult enough to get some retailers to let me get the last leg done by friendly cycling or bike-respecting Royal Mail, DPD or APC, rather than bloody dangerous traffic-law-flouting Yodel or UPS. Now I'm supposed to try to get them to restock by rail? :eek: I'll ask but it's unlikely to work...

Bike respecting DPD? Pull the other one...
 
Run freight into cities at night, as they do in a number of European countries with busy commuter lines...
But what then? You have lorries driving into London to pickup at stations to drop to final destination? Might as well just bring the lorries in.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Run freight into cities at night, as they do in a number of European countries with busy commuter lines...
Anyone else think it's surprisingly short-sighted that there don't appear to be any freight elevators on the Crossrail route? Surely it won't need 24 trains/hour capacity for passengers all through the night? The feeder lines link to so many docks - I think including one they reinstated to take some of the dirt out.
 
As has been pointed out up thread, most deliveries do not require large lorries. Plus we also have a number of unused underground railways and stations which could be repurposed.

Rather than simply succumbing to the "lorries are inevitable" meme, how about a little creative thinking?
Disagree. I get many deliveries per day at work. Lorries come. As I'm at the north end of central London we often get early drop off before 10 am. It takes them a while as the lorries are full. Smaller lorries just means more of them. Maybe that's better but again not so sure v
 

subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
As has been pointed out up thread, most deliveries do not require large lorries. Plus we also have a number of unused underground railways and stations which could be repurposed.

Rather than simply succumbing to the "lorries are inevitable" meme, how about a little creative thinking?


we looked into it for deliveries to building sites.

we could sort the extra cost bit out as would be less faffing so could get more done in less time.

biggest hurdle is sec61 notices. any residential near a site and the occupiers rightly don't want to be kept awake at night while deliveries happen. barbican cause a storm . i feel sorry for brookfield at moment!
 

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Let's be clear. Nothing is done to save lives. All that is ever done is to make people feel safer to encourage more to cycle. The no1 reason given for people not cycling in London is they don't feel safe. They key word here is 'feel'. I'm not saying this is bad but this isn't about saving lives.
The problem is every much the cyclists fault as the lorries in some cases -- some cyclists will try to squeeze themselves through the smallest gap just to get to the front of the traffic or either misjudge the amount of space needed that a lorry needs to turn left.
I'm afraid you're both wrong - and here's why.

Left turning lorries do not kill cyclists. Left turning lorries of a particular stripe kill cyclists, and, indeed, lorries of the same stripe run down cyclists from behind. And those lorries are construction traffic, primarily skip lorries. Cyclist deaths in London are not caused by the victims, they're caused by a particular type of driver, working for a particular type of company.

And the very good news is that the person who is taking on the role of Cycling Czar is an Architect, who knows that windows is one way to get to this problem as is the JCT Contract. And that's what he intends to do - to get to grips with a particular problem that is causing the deaths of cyclists both experienced and inexperienced.

Just to say..........I started banging on about this to the LCC in 2007, and was told by Tom Bogdanovich that it was too complicated. Charlie Lloyd's LCC lorry campaign that followed focused on local authority vehicles which was a nice earner for the LCC, but did nothing to get to grips with construction traffic. It's taken this long to get the powers that be turn their attention to that which matters, and, so, it's time for three cheers!
 
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I'm afraid you're both wrong - and here's why.

Left turning lorries do not kill cyclists. Left turning lorries of a particular stripe kill cyclists, and, indeed, lorries of the same stripe run down cyclists from behind. And those lorries are construction traffic, primarily skip lorries. Cyclist deaths in London are not caused by the victims, they're caused by a particular type of driver, working for a particular type of company.

And the very good news is that the person who is taking on the role of Cycling Czar is an Architect, who knows that the way to get to this problem) but also via the JCT Contract. And that's what he intends to do - to get to grips with a particular problem that is causing the deaths of cyclists both experienced and inexperienced.

Just to say..........I started banging on about this to the LCC in 2007, and was told by Tom Bogdanovich that it was too complicated. Charlie Lloyd's LCC lorry campaign that followed focused on local authority vehicles which was a nice earner for the LCC, but did nothing to get to grips with construction traffic. It's taken this long to get the powers that be turn their attention to that which matters, and, so, it's time for three cheers!
I bet you if I trained and drove one of these lorries I could do it without killing cyclists. It's the driver.
 

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
cctvbikecrash2907b.jpg

Can you imagine a car design being allowed that doesn't let the driver look below 3m in that direction?
this is a disgraceful thing, but it's not really just about the window. It's about the attitude. And I saw the same thing happen today just south of Liverpool Street, and, yes, it was exactly the same type of truck.
 

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
I bet you if I trained and drove one of these lorries I could do it without killing cyclists. It's the driver.
it the culture within construction that allows designers (be they Architects, Civil Engineers or Structural Engineers) to forget about injuries and deaths off site, that allows contractors not to submit risk assessments for transport as opposed to just deliveries, that allows the HSE to say 'nothing to do with us, guv and that allows companies like Thames Materials on the road because the designers don't say 'you must not employ these people'. It goes from top to bottom, and the only way to stop it is via the Contract. Quite how the Mayor gets to sort this out remains to be seen, but my hope is that every planning permission will come with a condition that requires all hauliers to pass a test of some sort to get on an approved list, and that some clever lawyer sees fit to launch an action on behalf of the relatives of a person killed by a tipper lorry not just at the lorry driver, but at the designers who failed to do their job.
 
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