Left hook video - Tooting
- Thread starter HLaB
- Start date
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Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke UK
False comparison alert.
Why? Only one person broke the law and one person was affected by a more powerful force.
figbat
Slippery scientist
- Location
- South Oxfordshire, UK
Watching it again I am reminded that another cyclist had just passed the Range Rover up the left hand side before they turned left, so they had even been given fair warning that this could happen.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke UK
I just don't see the comparison between the dressing provocatively/contributory negligence trope about sexual assault and the situation here.
The going out after dark dressed as you like bit is analogous to getting on the bike; entirely reasonable and no argument made that one should not.
However, once you are out, there are sensible steps that can be taken to minimise the risk of assault. My daughter and her friends look out for one another if a guy joins them or offers a drink - think possibility it being 'fixed' with Rohypnol or whatever. Don't wander blindly into a dangerous situation like being left alone with somebody you don't know you can trust or going to a hotel bedroom without being sure you're going to be OK.
Failure to comply with those checks doesn't make a person committing a sexual assault less guilty but life would be a lot better if the opportunity for doing so had been closed off.
Being on the QV and riding defensively are analogous to sensible steps as above.
The going out after dark dressed as you like bit is analogous to getting on the bike; entirely reasonable and no argument made that one should not.
However, once you are out, there are sensible steps that can be taken to minimise the risk of assault. My daughter and her friends look out for one another if a guy joins them or offers a drink - think possibility it being 'fixed' with Rohypnol or whatever. Don't wander blindly into a dangerous situation like being left alone with somebody you don't know you can trust or going to a hotel bedroom without being sure you're going to be OK.
Failure to comply with those checks doesn't make a person committing a sexual assault less guilty but life would be a lot better if the opportunity for doing so had been closed off.
Being on the QV and riding defensively are analogous to sensible steps as above.
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nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
Had there been an incident that led to a court case (such as the car driving over the cyclists leg for example) it would have been interesting to see how "blame" was apportioned by our legal systen. I suspect it wouldn't have been 100% car driver as cyclist could/should have been travelling at a speed more appropriate to the conditions and been aware that the car was indicating that it potentially was going to conduct a manoeuvre. The fact the manoeuvre was illegal has some bearing on this, but it was indicating its intentions
matticus
Guru
There's a high chance the driver would be prosecuted, in which case no blame would be considered; he's either guilty or not-guilty. And he's guilty of turning down a no-entry.
We agree - your daughter and her friends should not have to be so cautious, but unfortunately it is pragmatic to do so. Exactly the same for the cyclist. We would not blame your daughter for walking home alone and we should not blame the cyclist either.
Archie_tect
De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
- Location
- Northumberland
To raise the point out that just because you can see the Range Rover's left indicator flashing on the front doesn't mean that the rear indicator was working... the rapid flashing of the front one could mean the relay wasn't supplying power to the rear one- though whether this is possible with LED lights I'll leave others to decide- without all the information it's hard to judge.
Suffice to say if I saw a car in front of me indicating left I wouldn't pass it on the left side even if it was a no left turn junction for vehicles.
Suffice to say if I saw a car in front of me indicating left I wouldn't pass it on the left side even if it was a no left turn junction for vehicles.
DaveReading
Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
- Location
- Reading, obvs
You may well have a point re your apportionment of responsibility for the incident, but putting words in people's mouths that you know they neither said nor meant isn't helping you to get it across.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke UK
I think some posts confuse blame with the possibility of mitigations.
matticus
Guru
Well yes, but two issues:
- you might not be looking for a left-indicator on a car in that position. If you ride through there 5-times-a-week for 10 years and no vehicle ever breaks the no-left-turn rule. And thus
- you might not notice the indicator.
(just to be clear, I'm a perfect, self-preservating rider like everyone else here, so of course I wouldn't have passed him on the left
)
Rational is the adjective you're after. Rationale is a noun. Sorry for the pedantry.
By his actions it's pretty clear the cyclist was aware of what was likely to happen and prepared for it when it did. It's possible he was even trying to give the driver a bit of a fright by yelling at him as he started to turn. The driver certainly stopped very quickly.
winjim
Smash the cistern
Range Rover is already indicating at 19s, impact is at 27s, so the cyclist had at least eight seconds, which is ample time to make the important decision over whether you think you value your front wheel more or less than the driver values their paintwork...
nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
I bet, in determining compensation, there would be a significant reduction due to mitigating circumstances. These things are rarely as black and white as some people make out.
