Kinesis titanium frame, it was great while it lasted!

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AlanW

AlanW

Legendary Member
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I began drafting a response regarding a failed frame last year. Did not need to use it in the end but the general points may help. Mine had a lifetime guarantee so I was in a stronger position that way, but your three year guarantee does not negate your case.

"The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires goods to be of satisfactory quality (section 9(1)). The quality of the goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard expected of a reasonable person, taking into account factors such as description, price and other factors (section 9(2)). Other factors, such as statements made by the producer are also considered as part of the test (section 9(5)).

The bicycle was purchased in late 2017 for circa. £2,200.00 (a price reduced from the original sale price). This was a bicycle described by XXXX as capable of some gravel type riding (not that I used it for that) and came with a lifetime frame guarantee. Paragraph 105 of the explanatory notes of the Act explain a person has a limit of six years if they believe a breach of contract has occurred. In particular it refers to a breach of the goods being not of satisfactory quality in respect of the expectation of a reasonable person.

In light of that I believe the cost of the frame and advertised intended would mean a reasonable person would expect the bicycle to last longer than five years "

Sorry if I have missed the model of the frame. If it is a gravel bike you may have a stronger argument. Ideally look for a catalogue from the year it was made. I note on their website the latest gravel bike is described as being fit for Himalayan rides and uses titanium for ultimate strength. If you can find something saying similar about yours, a failure like yours after averaging 10 miles day would not appear reasonable given cost as well. If they do offer a longer warranty on current titanium frames it raises questions regarding if previous frames were not built to the same standards.

Hopefully you are in Strava so can evidence all the riding was on roads (if that was the case) and not on the gravel terrain the frame was made for (if it is a gravel frame).

If they bring in the might have been crashed argument ask them for proof of their assertion. Also highlight the lack of any scuff marks/crash damage.

The onus is on you, but not to prove the science regarding material failure. You have to prove it did not meet the test of a reasonable person, so the more evidence you can get in the basket the better.

Hope this helps. Only my own views and not offered with any expertise.

If all else fails take comfort in the fact it didn't snap whilst riding and it is a snapped frame, not a snapped body.

@Velochris this is a fantastic post and thank you so much for sharing it.

My model is the Grand Fondo and is specifically a road frame and has only been ridden on the road. Anyone that knows me, will vouch as to how well I look after my bikes.

Yes I am on Strava and my profile is public for all to see, all of my rides are assigned to a specific bike and rides are also logged on Garmin Connect, RWGPS
 

Velochris

Über Member
@Velochris this is a fantastic post and thank you so much for sharing it.

My model is the Grand Fondo and is specifically a road frame and has only been ridden on the road. Anyone that knows me, will vouch as to how well I look after my bikes.

Yes I am on Strava and my profile is public for all to see, all of my rides are assigned to a specific bike and rides are also logged on Garmin Connect, RWGPS

Still worth a dig around to see how it was marketed at the time.

Also worth comparing warranties to similarly priced titanium frames from other brands.
 
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AlanW

AlanW

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Quote from Kinesis:-

"The Granfondo Ti is a super-versatile, all year titanium mile eater."


"..the Kinesis Gran Fondo Ti, a superbly versatile bike that’ll turn its hand to almost anything, at any time of year. Big tyres and mudguards for winter, rack on for some ultra-light touring, light wheels for some sportive action – the GF Ti is a strong contender for the ‘only bike you need’ prize as well as our test winner."
 

Sallar55

Veteran
Never believe the hype, especially if its not an independent review. Big tyres 30mm?
I wonder how much insurance is factored into the price of bikes today.
 

Sallar55

Veteran
Had a look at Van Nic warranty, one is lifetime. Perhaps that was before being sold off another company.The next warranty on the search was 25 years of average usage, is that every day or one day a week for the average cyclist.🤔
Beware giving them your Strava history 😂.
My Airbourne warranty is void as they went bust about 20+years ago. Ps Lifetime is the frame and is that a set time?
 
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T4tomo

Legendary Member
Latest offer from Kinesis is now £1200 for a replacement frame

that's better although still well above "cost" to them. I cant be arsed to leaf back through thread but isnt there also the issue that you had a rim brake bike and replacements only disc brake, so you need to factor in ££ for new groupset or shifters and brakes at least?
 
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AlanW

AlanW

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that's better although still well above "cost" to them. I cant be arsed to leaf back through thread but isnt there also the issue that you had a rim brake bike and replacements only disc brake, so you need to factor in ££ for new groupset or shifters and brakes at least?

Correct, I also need to factor in hydraulic shifters, calipers, discs and wheels, so add another £1k tops maybe?

Merlin are selling a pair of Ultegra shifters and calipers for £500, couple of rotors £80, pair of decent wheels £400, bar tape £20.

Everything else would transfer over from the old frame, cost to build would be nothing other than my time.
 

Venod

Eh up
Location
Yorkshire
My Airbourne warranty is void as they went bust about 20+years ago

This link may be of interest.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090618155208/http://www.vannicholas.com/ResLib/WbmFAQ.aspx
 
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AlanW

AlanW

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Getting there,maybe if you get to a reasonable agreement to you both you could sell the frame on and buy yourself a rim brake frame ?

Funny enough, I've already had an offer to buy the frame for what it's going to cost me. Problem being, trying to source a replacement rim braked frame that has mudguard clearance is difficult!
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
Equally I've never seen a fishing rod subject to 5-6000 load cycles per hour of use, or see shock loading commensurate with that experienced by a fork when an 80kg rider strikes a pothole at 25mph.

In other safety-critical applocations CFRP is, at a minimum subject to regular inspection (I believe the aerospace industry use ultrasound for this). Another potentially telling example is pressure vessels used for breathing equipment - while all materials are subject to regular inspection, only CFRP bottles are given a finite lifespan that must not be exceeded; which I believe is typically 15 years. I suspect because for such things inspection is prohibitively expensive and it's cheaper just to bin and replace them.

It's an incredible material in many ways, however I maintain that it's

My dad bought a carbon fly road back when they were a new thing, it lasted a lifetime fishing every weekend for decades. He gave it away to a collector friend when he finally had to give up fishing.

Carbon forks have been around and safely used for decades with no worse failure rate than any other material. But you choose to believe they haven't. As have carbon tubs in sporty road cars and they haven't failed other than in bad crashes which would have written off any other material

I think you need to update your material science if you still believe CF is " fundamentally inappropriate for safety critical consumer applications."
 

geocycle

Legendary Member
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m11b0s143p0/Frames/Frames

SPA have a few choices of Ti rim brake frames in £700-800 bracket
Yes, that’s what I was thinking as well. The only issue with their rim brake frames is tyre clearance under guards. I have the audax frame and love it, but it works best with 25 mm tyres. Some 28 mm work well such as Schwalbe one pro tubeless, whereas the 28 mm Schwalbe one tubeless wouldn’t pass under the guards. The enigma range could be interesting so worth a call to check.
 
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