Killer cyclists

[SpokeyDokey]

Whatever the cause, if the outcome is the same then the penalty should be the same.

Not sure how that can be argued with.

 

[Mo1959]

We have a lot of horse texting hereabouts. Not sure what I feel about that tbh!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

View attachment 656301

You silly filly Mo!

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Whatever the cause, if the outcome is the same then the penalty should be the same.

Not sure how that can be argued with.

My only argument is making it specific to cyclists - include all road users and you automatically include people on e.g. escooters
if you don't then if/when someone dies due to some moron flying round pavements on an escooter then only the old laws will apply

I think - that may only apply to the legal ones - maybe

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Whatever the cause, if the outcome is the same then the penalty should be the same.

Not sure how that can be argued with.

I think the degree of recklessness comes into it.

For instance, if you're in charge of a nuclear power station, turn off the safety systems and induce a meltdown, killing one person in the process, you might expect a harsher sentence than if you ride a fixie without brakes on a pavement and kill a pedestrian.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

How do you measure recklessness?

It could possibly be argued that you would have to be very reckless to kill a pedestrian as a cyclist and not very reckless at all to kill someone as a driver.

I guess this could eventually come down to semantics so I'm going to stick with same outcome equals same penalty as each life lost has an equal value.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

How do you measure recklessness?

It could possibly be argued that you would have to be very reckless to kill a pedestrian as a cyclist and not very reckless at all to kill someone as a driver.

I guess this could eventually come down to semantics so I'm going to stick with same outcome equals same penalty as each life lost has an equal value.

We differentiate between motives in sentencing: murder and manslaughter.

Within manslaughter we differentiate massively according to circumstance, even though the outcome (death) is the same. Sentences from essentially nothing to life imprisonment are possible.

Don't have time now to look, but there is sentencing guidance for manslaughter.

The legal system does differentiate sentence enormously within the same outcome.

 

[Poacher]

that’s right, especially in the fish & chip wrapper it was published in

Point of order, m'lud, use of the DM for wrapping fish and chips was made illegal by the Food Safety Act 1990, due the toxicity of its contents.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Point of order, m'lud, use of the DM for wrapping fish and chips was made illegal by the Food Safety Act 1990, due the toxicity of its contents.

Bile's a pretty potent chemical, you're right.

 

[Poacher]

I think the degree of recklessness comes into it.

For instance, if you're in charge of a nuclear power station, turn off the safety systems and induce a meltdown, killing one person in the process, you might expect a harsher sentence than if you ride a fixie without brakes on a pavement and kill a pedestrian.

If that's a reference to the Charlie Alliston case, can I just point out that Kim Briggs was crossing Old Street paying more attention to her phone than her surroundings. I'm not defending the cyclist, who was an arrogant prat and fully deserved jail time, but let's not repeat the lies of the DM and other rags. Apologies if this was a possible scenario rather than a reference!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If that's a reference to the Charlie Alliston case

It wasn't!

 

[Profpointy]

Whatever the cause, if the outcome is the same then the penalty should be the same.

Not sure how that can be argued with.

Surely there's a huge difference according the intention and degree of recklessness

A friend of a friend quite accidentally barged into an old gentleman knocking him over and the guys subsequently died.

At the other extreme you have wilful murder.

Or even an the moderate end of things there's a difference between a mistake and drunk driving, with road rage incidents arguably worse still.

 

[Alex321]

Whatever the cause, if the outcome is the same then the penalty should be the same.

Not sure how that can be argued with.

It can easily be argued with.

If the outcome is the same and the wilfulness/recklessness of the cause was similar, then the sentence should be similar.

Murder/Manslaughter/Causing death by dangerous driving/Causing death by careless driving. All have the same outcome - somebody is dead. But sentences (and the possible range of sentences) vary wildly between those different causes.

Intent plays a very large part, not just outcome.

I agree that if death is caused by serious error on your part, then it shouldn't make any difference to the sentence whether it was a car you were driving, or a bike you were riding at the time.

 

[iluvmybike]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62444889
The government are now saying killer cyclists should be jailed for longer, don’t they need to sort out carp drivers first, I wonder what the numbers are in comparison between drivers that kill, and cyclists that hit and kill someone, seems to be Grant Chapps spouting off in the Daily Fail where this has come from

From what I read about 470 pedestrians were killed last year - only a couple were due to a collision with a bicycle

 

[DRM]

From what I read about 470 pedestrians were killed last year - only a couple were due to a collision with a bicycle

Sounds right a search on Google doesn’t even bring up a figure, I was only able to recall 2 incidents myself