Killer cyclists

[MontyVeda]

View attachment 656107

I think that chart may be skewed somewhat... maybe to account for attributing cause to the vehicle rather than the road or conditions. .Gov stats for total road deaths in 2019 is far more than the sum of the figures in the 'car' row on that chart.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I think that chart may be skewed somewhat... maybe to account for attributing cause to the vehicle rather than the road or conditions. .Gov stats for total road deaths in 2019 is far more than the sum of the figures in the 'car' row on that chart.

Don't shoot the messenger, it maybe just another poor quality report but it did seem fairly unbiased or if it was it was pro pedestrian, motorcycle, cyclist & anti-car

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...d-users-statistically-likely-kill-others.html

 

[BoldonLad]

I don;t necessarily disagree with the idea but it certainly should not just be for cyclists

probably anyone using the road, including the pavement, in a reckless manner

clearly one person walking into another person is unlikely to kill them in a reckless and dangerous manner like a cyclist riding at speed
but I have seen runners moving at speed and assuming everyone will see them and get out of their way
and - of course - electric scooters can go at all sorts of speeds as they are not regulated as they are illegal anyway - and so should come under the same category
I suppose what I am saying is that it should include anyone using the roads dangerously and recklessly - and putting it that way would automatically include any 'personal transport; systems that crop up in the future and become popular

but spending parliamentary time on something that happens so rarely when other things happen on roads fat more often are ignored 0 is not productive


but it does look good to your average reader of the rag in question

Exactly. The actual effect of the proposed changes, will be just about zero, but, it makes good click-bait.

 

[BoldonLad]

Well yes but what about the ones who don't wear a helmet!!!!!

and they all go through red lights!!!!!!!!

AND they don't pay Road Tax

mutter mutter mutter

You missed out:

- insurance
- number plates
- tests of ability before using the road
- not using the cycle lanes, provided at great cost for them

I am sure there are more, I will get back to you

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

You missed out:

- insurance
- number plates
- tests of ability before using the road
- not using the cycle lanes, provided at great cost for them

I am sure there are more, I will get back to you

APologies - I can only type so much BS before my fingers refuse to go further!

 

[MontyVeda]

Don't shoot the messenger ...

here's another chart from that article...

which seems to have vastly different figures from the same year and source

 

[DRM]

Exactly. The actual effect of the proposed changes, will be just about zero, but, it makes good click-bait.

that’s right, especially in the fish & chip wrapper it was published in

 

[Alex321]

I think the problem here isn’t death by cyclists, they are very few and very rare, yet motorists go round killing & maiming with barely a slap on the wrist,

That is not "the problem here", it is in fact almost completely irrelevant to the issue here.

The issue here is that the possible sentences for killing somebody by bad driving are much higher than those for killing somebody by bad cycling. How frequent either may be is completely irrelevant to that issue. They should be similar, and that is what is being proposed.

I believe it’s around 1850 per year killed, or 5 people per day according to the organisation brake, if you search for the number of people killed by cyclists google doesn’t even bring up a figure, perhaps someone here knows, yet it says in 2020 146 cyclists were killed, 4215 were seriously injured, and 11,938 slightly injured, an horrific toll, yet the cause of these figures get away lightly, the driving standards in the UK are appalling, there are no traffic police any more, just armed response vehicles, no wonder drivers get away with murder, quite literally

You may think that driving standards in the UK are appalling, but they are among the best in the world if you look at the actual statistics. There are only a few countries with lower KSI figures per billion vehicle kilometres.

 

[Stephenite]

That is not "the problem here", it is in fact almost completely irrelevant to the issue here.

The issue here is that the possible sentences for killing somebody by bad driving are much higher than those for killing somebody by bad cycling. How frequent either may be is completely irrelevant to that issue. They should be similar, and that is what is being proposed.


You may think that driving standards in the UK are appalling, but they are among the best in the world if you look at the actual statistics. There are only a few countries with lower KSI figures per billion vehicle kilometres.

Have you considered the concept of deterrence in crime punishment?

 

[Alex321]

Have you considered the concept of deterrence in crime punishment?

No, because sentence level doesn't deter.

Plenty of studies have shown that the potential sentence plays very little part in deterring crime, it is the perceived chance of getting caught that makes the main difference.

And I would think it will make even less difference in the case of crimes of negligence or recklessness than it would in deliberate criminal acts. Very few set out with the intention of driving (or cycling) badly enough to cause an accident, still less to kill somebody.

 

[slowmotion]

I don't see why somebody should get special treatment for killing somebody while riding on two wheels while behaving stupidly and arrogantly. Am I uncool?

 

[Stephenite]

No, because sentence level doesn't deter.

Plenty of studies have shown that the potential sentence plays very little part in deterring crime, it is the perceived chance of getting caught that makes the main difference.

And I would think it will make even less difference in the case of crimes of negligence or recklessness than it would in deliberate criminal acts. Very few set out with the intention of driving (or cycling) badly enough to cause an accident, still less to kill somebody.

It’s getting late, but I’ll have to take you up on your last sentence. There are many who set out to drive each and every day in the full knowledge they will be using their mobile phones for texting, calling, catching up on fb, insta, snap, etc., and playing games.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

It’s getting late, but I’ll have to take you up on your last sentence. There are many who set out to drive each and every day in the full knowledge they will be using their mobile phones for texting, calling, catching up on fb, insta, snap, etc., and playing games.

But they also know that the chances of being caught are minuscule, along with the fact they know in their own mind that they will never have an accident or cause one because it is perfectly safe what they are doing

 

[Alex321]

It’s getting late, but I’ll have to take you up on your last sentence. There are many who set out to drive each and every day in the full knowledge they will be using their mobile phones for texting, calling, catching up on fb, insta, snap, etc., and playing games.

They believe (wrongly) that they can do that without risking an accident. I stand by what I said. Very few (if any) deliberately set out to drive in a way which they believe makes them unsafe on the road.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

They believe (wrongly) that they can do that without risking an accident. I stand by what I said. Very few (if any) deliberately set out to drive in a way which they believe makes them unsafe on the road.

...as opposed to their knowing that they really shouldn't be doing it - which each and every one does.

ETA
We have a lot of horse texting hereabouts. Not sure what I feel about that tbh!