Dave5N
Über Member
- Location
- Outside The Little Nibble
No
Kids and crash hats...
- Thread starter fossyant
- Start date
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domtyler
Über Member
So why are you forcing your offspring to wear one when they ride a bike then?
Do you think it is because you have been 'sold' the idea that cyclists must wear them and doubly so if a child? We know there is no evidence that they make cycling safer overall. Like I mentioned earlier, I grew up without ever wearing one, in order to protect my head I learned not to strike my head on the pavement or road.
I'm not on a wind up mission here btw, I am genuinely interested in how this situation has come about.
Do you think it is because you have been 'sold' the idea that cyclists must wear them and doubly so if a child? We know there is no evidence that they make cycling safer overall. Like I mentioned earlier, I grew up without ever wearing one, in order to protect my head I learned not to strike my head on the pavement or road.
I'm not on a wind up mission here btw, I am genuinely interested in how this situation has come about.
Dave5N
Über Member
- Location
- Outside The Little Nibble
Wait five years and then ask if you don't know.
Dom your logic doesn't stand up, you're comparing apples with oranges and the adult argument over helmets does not stand up for children.
I've already stated fully and clearly why I make my kids wear helmets, I have no intention of repeating myself. It's up to you to make your own decisions when your daughter is old enough to ride a bike under her own steam: My guess; you'll make her wear a helmet.
...and....I'm not entirely convinced that you striking your head on the pavement as a child has not affected you into adulthood anyway....
I've already stated fully and clearly why I make my kids wear helmets, I have no intention of repeating myself. It's up to you to make your own decisions when your daughter is old enough to ride a bike under her own steam: My guess; you'll make her wear a helmet.
...and....I'm not entirely convinced that you striking your head on the pavement as a child has not affected you into adulthood anyway....
stephenb
Guru
surprised this hasn't appeared yet
www.cyclehelmets.org
I wear one sometimes, mostly not. My 11 y.o prefers to, that's his call.
www.cyclehelmets.org
I wear one sometimes, mostly not. My 11 y.o prefers to, that's his call.
MartinC
Über Member
- Location
- Cheltenham
I haven't noticed any anti-helmet threads.
U
User169
Guest
gavintc said:
It's a bit difficult to discuss helmets without pushing your personal agenda/opinion isn't it? I can't really see that this thread is dominated by "anti-helmet" opinion; it seems fairly evenly balanced between those that do and those that don't. In any event, I don't think there are really that many people who are anti-helmet, although there are many that are anti-compulsion.
For what it's worth, my wife and I don't make our daughters (2.5year and 5months) wear helmets when they're on the bikes with us.
The trouble is that any post that is not enthusiastic about helmets is considered "anti".
This is the more "fixed" view.
Be open to the facts and discussion, do not simply dismiss any non supportive posts. Consider the points......
More children under 5 will suffer serious head injuries from falls (60%)
In 10 - 15 year olds, this is still the same....
As study in Coventry looking at traumatic brain injury simply took all the head injuries presenting and tabled by by cause.
(Prevalence of traumatic brain injury amongst children admitted to hospital in one health district: a population-based study - Hawley et al)
In 10 - 15 year olds
Falls 28.2%
Fall form bicycle 6.3%
Pedestrian RTA 20%
Assault 7.9%
In 5 - 9year olds:
Falls 44.2%
Fall from bicycle 10.5%
Pedestrian RTA 13.3%
Falls become even more prevalent in the 2-4 age group (62%) and the 1 year olds (69%)
I have no problem with the use of helmets, but surely we need to look at why bicycles. Considerably greater numbers of children are admitted with traumatic brain injury through falls off the bike than on, so have we got the priority right
Isn't there an equal justification for helmets of the bike as on?
This is the more "fixed" view.
Be open to the facts and discussion, do not simply dismiss any non supportive posts. Consider the points......
More children under 5 will suffer serious head injuries from falls (60%)
In 10 - 15 year olds, this is still the same....
As study in Coventry looking at traumatic brain injury simply took all the head injuries presenting and tabled by by cause.
(Prevalence of traumatic brain injury amongst children admitted to hospital in one health district: a population-based study - Hawley et al)
In 10 - 15 year olds
Falls 28.2%
Fall form bicycle 6.3%
Pedestrian RTA 20%
Assault 7.9%
In 5 - 9year olds:
Falls 44.2%
Fall from bicycle 10.5%
Pedestrian RTA 13.3%
Falls become even more prevalent in the 2-4 age group (62%) and the 1 year olds (69%)
I have no problem with the use of helmets, but surely we need to look at why bicycles. Considerably greater numbers of children are admitted with traumatic brain injury through falls off the bike than on, so have we got the priority right
Isn't there an equal justification for helmets of the bike as on?
domtyler
Über Member
I am certainly not accepting being put in the anti-helmet corner here, let's get that straight. I am in the "I want to do the best thing for my kid in the long run, how do I do it" corner. She currently wears a helmet when in the child seat on the back of my bike.
I am just far from convinced that slapping a helmet on a child whenever they anything with any element of risk is the best course of action. Sure there may be some times when you wished that they were wearing protection but lets just remember how you learned not to touch hot things, shouldn't we just let our kids figure it out for themselves too?
I am just far from convinced that slapping a helmet on a child whenever they anything with any element of risk is the best course of action. Sure there may be some times when you wished that they were wearing protection but lets just remember how you learned not to touch hot things, shouldn't we just let our kids figure it out for themselves too?
Any fall which involves banging a helmet hard enough such that if it wasn't being worn it might need gluing or stitches or just 'casue a big bump, is still going to hurt and cause shock. Banging a helmet on is not going to reduce the lesson being learnt (learned?) from a fall, nor is slapping a helmet on a way of reducing risk, risk of injury perhaps but that's not the same thing.
If you are wanting to learn lessons learn them from someone else - my kids. After son no.2's head wound they both actively seek out their helmets without my prompting. Why? It hurt, he doesn't want to do it again.
A helmet though is a small part of overall risk of injury protection though arguably it protects the most vulnerable part, it doesn't protect the knackers (pedals are slippy), knees, arms, legs and hands so lots of scope for learning lessons there and both my kids are well versed in those lessons.
If you are wanting to learn lessons learn them from someone else - my kids. After son no.2's head wound they both actively seek out their helmets without my prompting. Why? It hurt, he doesn't want to do it again.
A helmet though is a small part of overall risk of injury protection though arguably it protects the most vulnerable part, it doesn't protect the knackers (pedals are slippy), knees, arms, legs and hands so lots of scope for learning lessons there and both my kids are well versed in those lessons.
Dave5N
Über Member
- Location
- Outside The Little Nibble
Cunobelin,
Falls from bikes will be low in the stats because: fewer hours spent on a bike; and not that likely to fall and hit head anyway.
However, a child on a bike has a lot more momentum than a child playing football, so I would speculate that the potential for head injury, fall for fall, is greater for a bike accident; also, it is more likely to be onto a hard surface, and possibly an uneven one such as a stone, or kerb.
Anyway, all well and good but they will still not be allowed on a bike without a helmet. Nor will any child I coach.
Falls from bikes will be low in the stats because: fewer hours spent on a bike; and not that likely to fall and hit head anyway.
However, a child on a bike has a lot more momentum than a child playing football, so I would speculate that the potential for head injury, fall for fall, is greater for a bike accident; also, it is more likely to be onto a hard surface, and possibly an uneven one such as a stone, or kerb.
Anyway, all well and good but they will still not be allowed on a bike without a helmet. Nor will any child I coach.
Dave5N said:
Risk is an ephemeral issue, you could argue that per mile, per hour, per trip.....
(The same method has "conclusively" proved that more people are killed by cyclist than white van man!)
However at the coalface the figures are simple and solid.
142 head injuries would have been lessened or prevented if the falling children had been wearing helmets, whilst only 32 would be prevented or lessened by the cyclists wearing helmets.
There is the simple question why lessen or prevent 32 when you can prevent 142?
Dave5N
Über Member
- Location
- Outside The Little Nibble
Ah well. Perhaps I should tell them not to bother then.
