Just how bad are drivers, in general?

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presta

Guru
I'd like to get a closer look at those statistics. What proportion of young drivers receive a DD40 (which is subtly different of DD40s issued to young drivers). I don't believe for a second that all young drivers are such risk takers and I think it is important to understand why a proportion of them are.

I also don't think there is much point in a Graduated Driving License (GDL) on account that a small engined small car still has potential to do a great deal of damage and they are still much more powerful than they were years ago.

Additionally, steep insurance premiums make the majority of 'faster' cars inaccessible to young drivers anyway.

The number of DD40s per young driver is eight times higher than among the older drivers.
 
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PedallingNowhereSlowly

PedallingNowhereSlowly

Senior Member
The number of DD40s per young driver is eight times higher than among the older drivers.
But that does not tell me what proportion of young drivers receive DD40s. Which is what I was getting at.

I'll probably go away and get some numbers and work this out (how many new young drivers licensed each year versus how many DD40s are issued each year)
 
It seemed to be silly season here yesterday, sun was out some drivers got a little exuberant.

First example was at 9am (i was in my car like thing) passing through a T junction, me driving on the main road part and a driver entering from the side. The issue was the car didn’t stop at the junction and car straight through, wheels locked as she skidded through to nearly T-bone us, her car stopped 3-5cm from our side door and she was in total shock. I asked No3 daughter is she had noticed anything odd as she was in direct line of sight and she said that as the driver approached she was looking down and not ahead…. No idea what she was doing but certainly wasn’t aware that she was about to enter a junction.

Then later in the afternoon 2 head on’s when out on the bike.

The first was on a 50mpm road where a pickup was passing 3 vehicles, he was doing 60+ at a guess and i had no choice but to dive into the side of the road unless i wanted to become part of his vehicle…

Then about 2hrs later another driver decided to pass a tractor with a large trailer. The thing was i was already coming in the opposite direction. In this case is was a 30 zone and they were going quite slowly. The driver flashed her light at me to move out of her way ie i move off the road so she could use “my” side of the road…. I decided to hold my ground as by now she was side by side with the tractor/trailer and a sort of in the middle of no where. I road straight up to here front bumper (she’d now had to stop) leaving about 1cm space and forced her to reverse back😂 the driver was not impressed as was some how having to do the reverse of shame (i may have blocked her passage as much as i possible could…).


Otherwise on my commutes I’ve concluded there’s 3 primary things that increase risks to me as a cyclist on the road:

1) People in a rush, that to me seems to be the main issue (in the morning I’m commute more “rush hour” and funnily enough people are in a rush…)
2) People that just thing “it’s only a bike” and make their manoeuvre, “the bike will slow down” or “I’ve got loads of time before that bike gets here” sort of thing
3) People using devices, generally distracted and fiddly with knobs: see less of these but on a bike you do tend to notice them quite easily as you can often see in through a window and see a hand doing something it shouldn’t be doing

I never know what to do in all these circumstances as so far every driver I’ve every challenged has told me he was expert in his craft and i was absolutely wrong in my suggestion🤷‍♂️ maybe i have just got it all wrong.

Until then i still dream of being egg man
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales

Ok. That dos surprise me - I would have expected it to be at least 10%, possibly more.
 
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PedallingNowhereSlowly

PedallingNowhereSlowly

Senior Member
So a large proportion of young drivers don't get DD40s.
I think more evidence is needed before graduated driving licenses are deemed to be the right solution. I honestly don't think they are.

Social media post I saw this morning made me laugh for the wrong reasons. The poster was complaining about a 2 minute journey taking 12 minutes because of some temporary traffic lights. A sad reflection on a society of people, the majority of whom seem unable to think critically.

Maybe the solution is better education.
 
The poster was complaining about a 2 minute journey taking 12 minutes because of some temporary traffic lights. A sad reflection on a society of people, the majority of whom seem unable to think critically.

Generations of having the state remove all obstacles to fast driving; now the smallest inconvenience feels like a great imposition.
 

Bristolian

Senior Member
Location
Bristol, UK
So a large proportion of young drivers don't get DD40s.
I think more evidence is needed before graduated driving licenses are deemed to be the right solution. I honestly don't think they are.
The fact that they don't get a DD40 doesn't mean they don't drive dangerously - just that haven't been caught ... yet. Sorry, that's a bit flippant but when you see the number of older drivers (i.e. 25+) that don't get DD40's either yet we see awful, dangerous driving on our roads every day it is clear that the majority of people are getting away with it regularly.

Do you also think GDL's for motorcyclists are wrong? The Government of the day used the same argument to impose that decades ago and I'm pleased to say lives have been saved.
 
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PedallingNowhereSlowly

PedallingNowhereSlowly

Senior Member
The fact that they don't get a DD40 doesn't mean they don't drive dangerously - just that haven't been caught ... yet. Sorry, that's a bit flippant but when you see the number of older drivers (i.e. 25+) that don't get DD40's either yet we see awful, dangerous driving on our roads every day it is clear that the majority of people are getting away with it regularly.

Do you also think GDL's for motorcyclists are wrong? The Government of the day used the same argument to impose that decades ago and I'm pleased to say lives have been saved.
The thing about motorcyclists is that to a degree, is that self preservation kicks in. Motorcyclists, not sitting in a metal cage, are more connected to what is going on around them. And motorcyclists don't present the same degree of risk to other road users that people in larger metal cages do.

IMV a young, newly qualified driver presents almost as much risk driving a 3-cylinder super mini as they do driving a sportier car or larger vehicle. Especially in respect to the most vulnerable road users.

And I suspect the most risky cohort, will buy a 1.0 litre Corsa and swap the engine, add a turbo charger or remap it to increase it's power output (or buy one already modified) without updating the paperwork and telling their insurance company. This already happens to a degree because of the higher insurance premiums modified cars command. And it certainly happens with motorbikes (de-restricted 125cc bikes)

I think comparing GDL for motorcyclists with a GDL for drivers is similar to calling for mandatory licensing for cyclists, in that it won't really address the problem.

I think driver training and examination needs improving to impress upon people the responsibility driving a car brings and the risk driving a car presents to other road users. It needs to be able fail those who are clearly incapable of driving responsibly. Obviously, that is much more challenging to try and implement than GDL.

I also think that a prerequisite for a driving license should be a Bikeability level 3 (or equivalent) certificate, unless there are good medical reasons for examption.

And I also think we need to see a much higher level of visible enforcement on our roads to deter bad driving and change the perception of not getting caught. We should also have much stiffer penalties - with a short duration driving ban coupled with mandatory further driver training for a first offence.

I think GDL will be a very soft, ineffective measure that breeds hubris. I'd rather see mandatory 'black boxes' for all drivers that tell them when their driving is inappropriate and generates a police report if that bad driving persists.
 
And I suspect the most risky cohort, will <do something really crazy dangerous that we can't easily stop>

Is this a sensible basis for law-making? I mean, if Mossad choose to hunt everyone on this thread down and kill us in our sleep with AK47s/semtex, that's hard to stop with simple legislation; but I still think we should have laws against carrying weapons, and against shooting/stabbing people.
 
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