Corect but the investigation has to look at all aspects and consider whether there are a other issues at play, although I doubt it will make ane episode of Seconds to Disaster ( or similar)
Is this the UK's most dangerous zebra crossing?
- Thread starter Cycleops
- Start date
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Corect but the investigation has to look at all aspects and consider whether there are a other issues at play, although I doubt it will make ane episode of Seconds to Disaster ( or similar)
notmyrealnamebutclose
Senior Member
That no doubt can and does happen as there appears to be more stupid people about these days, especially those
that have their mobiles stuck in front of their face and hardly paying attention to their surroundings. If the car(veh) driver
Is going no more than 20mph max you can't always unfairly blame or punish the driver for idiots thinking they're
entitled to cross over when it's clearly not safe to do so. You have to factor in saving idiots from themselves somehow.
DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
That’s not my point, it’s actually just bad driving, not just at zebra crossings, or any other for that matter, just bad driving everywhere, it’s why some roads now have bollards across them half way along to prevent use as high speed rat runs, there’s a very peculiar car culture there, it has to be a flash and high powered car, usually German, sometimes a Lexus, but always badly driven, it’s one of the few places where super cars are hired for weddings and every man and his dog gets to thrash the backside off it, yes, that’s right they hire Ferraris, Lamborghini’s and Audi R8‘s to hammer round in, my mate was a Special Constable in Bradford for a while, whilst out with one of the pursuit drivers the on board system that pings up untaxed, uninsured & no MOT vehicles was going barmy all night, they could not cope with the sheer amount alerts, it was that bad he refused to take his own car through the city again.
Google streetscene
Gerneral pedestrain crossing requirements
https://assets.publishing.service.g...file/330214/ltn-2-95_pedestrian-crossings.pdf
Crossings should be located away from conflict points at uncontrolled junctions. This will give drivers an adequate opportunity to appreciate the existence of a crossing and to brake safely. The ‘safe’ distance will depend on the geometry of the junction and type of side road. However...an absolute minimum of 5 metres for a Zebra crossing. It is suggested that the distance be measured from the position of a driver waiting at the give-way line of the side road. Where it is impossible to obtain a ‘safe’ distance, consider banning turning movements towards the crossing or make the side road one way away from the junction.
Looks like the 5m separation coufd be questionable.
Gerneral pedestrain crossing requirements
https://assets.publishing.service.g...file/330214/ltn-2-95_pedestrian-crossings.pdf
Crossings should be located away from conflict points at uncontrolled junctions. This will give drivers an adequate opportunity to appreciate the existence of a crossing and to brake safely. The ‘safe’ distance will depend on the geometry of the junction and type of side road. However...an absolute minimum of 5 metres for a Zebra crossing. It is suggested that the distance be measured from the position of a driver waiting at the give-way line of the side road. Where it is impossible to obtain a ‘safe’ distance, consider banning turning movements towards the crossing or make the side road one way away from the junction.
Looks like the 5m separation coufd be questionable.
classic33
Leg End Member
Cars parked on the crossing, either side of the road, was one reason it was moved.
Question, how did that car get shop on the pavement in front of the shop.
Via the pedestrian crossing perchance?
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
I have no idea how you get to that stupid interpretation. I can only assume you are being wilfully obtuse. Deliberately trivialising/misinterpreting in order to argue against something that has not been suggested.
Saying there is obviously an issue with the zebra does NOT mean some inanimate object is "at fault" in the sense of it having acted in some way badly.
It clearly does not meet the guidelines set out for road planners, which would be used if creating a new crossing now.
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
It is here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.788...4!1sxZ1r5QMmGmC7H5e7HnZ_QA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
If they have been here more than a year, and are from Pakistan (or any other Asian country except Japan, Singapore, Repubic of Korea, Taiwan or Hong Kong) then they are driving illegally unless they pass a UK test.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
That's the 2nd time you have used the word Stupid, one more & I will report your posts as they are against the rules of the forum, if you can't argue against the point raised without having to result to personal insult possibly you need to take some time away from the keyboard & consider your responses.
Maybe your points are not coming over the way you intend, but currently you are laying the blame for the incidents at the pedestrians & the cyclists. You appear to be suggesting that the crossing position is at fault & not those driving the cars, I do not believe that is the case. Of the incidents I watched on the original video, there was only 1 person to blame in each case, the driver of the car, the position of the crossing has zero to do with it.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
I don't think I agree. In Bristol I reckon drivers are notably laid back and considerate by and large. In my original home town of Cardiff, and I think South Wales generally, there's a lot more aggression and macho behaviour. Woe betide you if you're in the wrong lane you'll get all sorts of aggression. Even London where everyone's definitely pushy, no one is that bothered if you push in or whatever, as it's accepted that people need to get across four lanes of traffic and may not known exactly the route.
classic33
Leg End Member
If it's not the fault of those going over the actual crossing, either across it from one pavement to the other, or while travelling over it on the road, then for your argument to hold water it has to be the crossing(an inanimate object) at fault.
That last part might be true now, but the crossing has been there since the early 90's. As said earlier in the thread.
Then ask yourself if driver behaviour isn't to blame, and how did that car gain the pavement. The bollards are too close together to stop it. Leaving only one way a driver could have gained the pavement.
classic33
Leg End Member
Nothing odd about that, there's an acknowledged market locally for someone else to sit your driving test for you.
DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
And there in lies the problem, many do not bother, they will give a relatives name when stopped, use slightly different spellings of names, and generally try to lie their way out of it, there were many examples of this in the episodes of Police Interceptors when they filmed a series in Leeds & Bradford, there is basically no respect of the law, or doing things correctly, dodgy mot’s as well
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
The design of that object, not the object itself. An inanimate object cannot be "at fault". But the placement/design of the object can be problematic.
True. But if it doesn't meet curent standards, that may go some way to explaining why so many drivers drive so badly there. And bringing it in line with standard may reduce that number.
This is not trying to excuse the drivers in the slightest, it is just trying to reduce the number of such instances for the future.
Why would I ask myself anything starting with "if driver behaviour isn't to blame", given I have never suggested that for one moment.?
I have repeatedly stated in this thread that the drivers are seriously at fault. That is unarguably true.
A number of people here though seem to think that if drivers are at fault, then there can't be anything wrong with the crossing, but that simply does not follow.
classic33
Leg End Member
Why then has it only become the problem it is in recent years. As opposed to when it was first placed there?
I doubt those driving over the crossing won't be aware of design changes, and it not meeting current standards. What's changed since it was first moved to that location, the crossing hasn't, it's simply been repainted over time to keep it visible.
But given its clearly marked, Belisha Beacons, correct road markings(even for these days), why are drivers failing to yield to those on the crossing.
