Is this Crankset shot?

[jonny jeez]

I've been suffering a loud and annoying creak from my cranks for a while (thanks to all those who tried to help on the "creaky front end" thread). I took apart the rings, and rebuilt with new bolts, also added a new Bottom Bracket and stacks of grease and un did the pedals, greased the threads and refitted.

Noise is the same and gets worse after a long ride.

Every rotation, with pressure on the cranks (cant decide which as it seems to move around...but seems to favour the drive side) the creak and a series of tiny clicks (like a fast ratchet) occur.

So, I am going back to the drawing board and assume that the crank-set or axle is just shot. My left (non drive) BB was graunching and seems to have caused some wear on the axle on the same end, the photos don't show it well (the top one is the best) but there is a definite "thinning" of the axle at that end.

LBS feel that this "may" be the issue but didnt have the same part, so could only sell me a different replacement to "try it".

Happy to buy another set but I want the same, original model and they are hard to find (Tiagra 4550, circa 2011) and coming in at around £90. So three things really.

1- Do you think this could be the cause of a constant, loud and worsening creak?
2- Can I do anything in the short term whilst I shop for a replacement (if I can find one and if you guys think its the problem)
3 Yes, I do need to cut my grass

Really appreciate your help....as ever

 

[MikeOYO]

Hi, are you sure it's the bottom bracket and not emanating from the wheel bearings instead? It might be worth overhauling those, particularly the rear spindle and bearings, which tend to get more hammering than the front. The noise produced by a dry/failing rear wheel bearing would be similar to that of the bottom bracket bearings and felt similarly along the drivetrain.

 

[User6179]

I've been suffering a loud and annoying creak from my cranks for a while (thanks to all those who tried to help on the "creaky front end" thread). I took apart the rings, and rebuilt with new bolts, also added a new Bottom Bracket and stacks of grease and un did the pedals, greased the threads and refitted.

Noise is the same and gets worse after a long ride.

Every rotation, with pressure on the cranks (cant decide which as it seems to move around...but seems to favour the drive side) the creak and a series of tiny clicks (like a fast ratchet) occur.

So, I am going back to the drawing board and assume that the crank-set or axle is just shot. My left (non drive) BB was graunching and seems to have caused some wear on the axle on the same end, the photos don't show it well (the top one is the best) but there is a definite "thinning" of the axle at that end.

LBS feel that this "may" be the issue but didnt have the same part, so could only sell me a different replacement to "try it".

Happy to buy another set but I want the same, original model and they are hard to find (Tiagra 4550, circa 2011) and coming in at around £90. So three things really.

1- Do you think this could be the cause of a constant, loud and worsening creak?
2- Can I do anything in the short term whilst I shop for a replacement (if I can find one and if you guys think its the problem)
3 Yes, I do need to cut my grass

Really appreciate your help....as ever

Looking at the wear marks from the BB looks like you might of been running the crank without a spacer at one point as the marks seem to be in two different spots ! ?Have you got a plastic spacer on spindle on drive side?

 

[jonny jeez]

Looking at the wear marks from the BB looks like you might of been running the crank without a spacer at one point as the marks seem to be in two different spots ! ?Have you got a plastic spacer on spindle on drive side?

Hi Eddy, no. No spacer was present when I removed it (for the first time since buying the bike) and the creak only started last week. The bike has done probably 15- 20,000 miles before that.

also, I dont think a spacer would fit as the new bottom bracket allowed the rings to line up perfectly with the chain/front mech....without a spacer.

 

[User6179]

Hi Eddy, no. No spacer was present when I removed it (for the first time since buying the bike) and the creak only started last week. The bike has done probably 15- 20,000 miles before that.

also, I dont think a spacer would fit as the new bottom bracket allowed the rings to line up perfectly with the chain/front mech....without a spacer.

There is spacer/ring showing in the shimano tec docs , I have one on my tiagra 4600 crank and Ultegra crank btw .

 

[jonny jeez]

There is spacer/ring showing in the shimano tec docs , I have one on my tiagra 4600 crank and Ultegra crank btw .

Ok, sounds sensible otherwise the crank arms will grind against the side of the BB I guess..

But, do you think that these marks mean I need a new crankset to remove the creak?

Keep in mind the creak happened before the cranks were opened up, removed or even poked.

 

[CUBE CRD]

What pedals are you using?I recently replaced what I thought was a knackered BB only to discover half a ride later that the click / creak was still there.Turned out my Shimano M540 pedals needed stripped down and re-greased inside.(I kept the old BB just in case so it will do a turn some other time )

 

[jonny jeez]

There is spacer/ring showing in the shimano tec docs , I have one on my tiagra 4600 crank and Ultegra crank btw .

Oh hold,on, if you mean ring 5 below

Then, yes, these are fitted but that are very thin and sit on the non drive side sort of inside the lip of the crank arm. On the drive side they look almost like a thin rubber seal at the crank arm end, again embedded in a groove.,You can just see it in the last picture above if you zoom in on the underside of the crank.

 

[jonny jeez]

What pedals are you using?I recently replaced what I thought was a knackered BB only to discover half a ride later that the click / creak was still there.Turned out my Shimano M540 pedals needed stripped down and re-greased inside.(I kept the old BB just in case so it will do a turn some other time )

Yep, I've isolated the pedals by stepping on the crank arms and getting the same responce.monce the creaking starts, you can make it happen by applying very little pressure.

Also isolated the seat, bars, shoes, cleats ...and my knees

 

[User6179]

Yep, I've isolated the pedals by stepping on the crank arms and getting the same responce.monce the creaking starts, you can make it happen by applying very little pressure.

Also isolated the seat, bars, shoes, cleats ...and my knees

Ok, sounds sensible otherwise the crank arms will grind against the side of the BB I guess..

But, do you think that these marks mean I need a new crankset to remove the creak?

Keep in mind the creak happened before the cranks were opened up, removed or even poked.

I have similar marks on a Deore crank that I ran when the BB had seized , don't know how long it had seized for before I noticed but it still works fine with a new BB .

 

[accountantpete]

The wear on the axle only occurs if the friction of the BB bearings is greater than the friction offered by the fit of the axle - see above post.

So BB bearings is the first thing I would look at.

Secondly the axle will only be shot of there is play in the cranks. If there is no play then they should be ok.

 

[jonny jeez]

The wear on the axle only occurs if the friction of the BB bearings is greater than the friction offered by the fit of the axle - see above post.

So BB bearings is the first thing I would look at.

Secondly the axle will only be shot of there is play in the cranks. If there is no play then they should be ok.

I've swapped out the Bb entirely,,creak still occurs.

Which is why I've arrived at the conclusion that it must be something to do with something that in"put back" rather than something I have swapped or stripped down.

I can't detect any play at all.

It's so odd?

 

[jonny jeez]

Ive decided to order a new crankset...from Germany as its a little cheaper.

I've packed this one with grease and refitted, am a bit curious as to why the crank arms sit right next to the BB and, by all rights, should scrape against it...but don't seem to. Everything runs smoothly on the stand.

Will take her for a 20 mile ride tomorrow and expect the creak to return. if it is still there when the new crank set (along with a second new bb) is fitted then I frankly don't know what to do next.

The noise is loud enough to hear over heavy traffic

 

[jonny jeez]

Hi, are you sure it's the bottom bracket and not emanating from the wheel bearings instead? It might be worth overhauling those, particularly the rear spindle and bearings, which tend to get more hammering than the front. The noise produced by a dry/failing rear wheel bearing would be similar to that of the bottom bracket bearings and felt similarly along the drivetrain.

I'm as sure as I can be, the noise happens in correlation to the crank turning, typically when the drive side crank hits 4 pm on the turn...and can be stopped by relieving pressure on the cranks (turning them lightly on the flat)

Today on a hilly ride, the noise...at one point...seemed to occur as the non drive side crank went over the vertical (drive side at 6-7pm)...it quickly moved back to the drive side so I suspect this may have been pedal creak kicking in, which happens sometimes as my pedals dry out.

It's like an orchestra.

 

[jonny jeez]

Hi, are you sure it's the bottom bracket and not emanating from the wheel bearings instead? It might be worth overhauling those, particularly the rear spindle and bearings, which tend to get more hammering than the front. The noise produced by a dry/failing rear wheel bearing would be similar to that of the bottom bracket bearings and felt similarly along the drivetrain.

Oh and also, my wheels and bearings are 3 months old.