Is there hope things might change?

[Punkawallah]

‘Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment’ :-)

 

[matticus]

A ray of hope is that Holland was very anti to begin with. It took one death too many and a very determined individual to finally get the ball rolling seriously. Read 'Bike Nation' it can be done but sometimes from the bottom up and not the other way around.

An interesting aspect to this is that (IIRC) the Dutch campaign was almost entirely about keeping kids safe.

In 2020s UK we now have the whole climate culture war entangled up in this. Perhaps that's a part of why typical Brit-on-the-street seems so much more stubborn than the typical clog-wearer?

 

[mjr]

outside of London there has been very little, if any, improvement to active travel implementation in thjrty yesrs and what little does get though is usually poor quality and then badly maintained because it's seen by counils as a lower priority than the roads.

Oh I think that's going too far. It's far from uniform across the country for various reasons, including the city-based projects of the 2010-2015 coalition and the recent madness of 45 cycling-related grant competitions which the new Transport Minister has pledged to replace with a proper long-term budget, and Poshshire is infuriatingly stuck in a 1980s timewarp (I think thirty years is being too kind! More like forty!), but some places are actually moving forwards. It's far from perfect, but stuff I've seen around Bristol, Birmingham, Norwich and of course Cambridge gives me some hope that London's progress may spread.

I believe the majority of obstructions to delivery are cultural. The answer will never be political in nature, but will be an eventual societal rejection on the forces that perpetuate the prevailing anti cycling agenda. Sadly I doubt it'll happen in my lifetime, but happen it will.

That may depend whether you start doing unofficial Popinjay tournaments or not. 😉

 

[mjr]

An interesting aspect to this is that (IIRC) the Dutch campaign was almost entirely about keeping kids safe.

In 2020s UK we now have the whole climate culture war entangled up in this. Perhaps that's a part of why typical Brit-on-the-street seems so much more stubborn than the typical clog-wearer?

Some have tried to start a Dutch-style child-centred campaign for the UK but it's not really caught on. I'm not sure why. Even more limited campaigns like School Streets seem to bring out some really ranty opposition.

Maybe it's that Brits have a twisted idea of keeping kids safe. I see that a TV presenter has been referred to social services for letting her 15-year-old son go interrailing and local Bikeability instructors have told stories of angry parents objecting to their offspring being told to cycle on the carriageway instead of the pavement.

Or maybe we just hate children and don't see why they should have it any easier than we did. It would explain a lot, including our often-terminally short-sighted decisions on health and the environment.

 

[Alex321]

We hear a lot about active travel and it matters not what colour suit the person making the promises is wearing - outside of London there has been very little, if any, improvement to active travel implementation in thjrty yesrs and what little does get though is usually poor quality and then badly maintained because it's seen by counils as a lower priority than the roads.

While there are plenty of pkaces which do fit your description, I would disagree that it is everywhere "outside London".

Provision is actually quite good here in the Vale of Glamorgan, Bridgend and Rhondda-Cynon-Taff areas, and pretty good in parts of Cardiff too.

I believe the majority of obstructions to delivery are cultural. The answer will never be political in nature, but will be an eventual societal rejection on the forces that perpetuate the prevailing anti cycling agenda. Sadly I doubt it'll happen in my lifetime, but happen it will.

This is very true. Social pressures have far more effect than legislation.

 

[All uphill]

A ray of hope is that Holland was very anti to begin with. It took one death too many and a very determined individual to finally get the ball rolling seriously. Read 'Bike Nation' it can be done but sometimes from the bottom up and not the other way around.

Agreed.

If a town or city gets to a tipping point where cyclists/skaters/scooters/walking become the norm then drivers' behaviour changes significantly encouraging other people to cycle too.

Things like ULEZ and joined up cycle routes help, slapping some paint on the road and installing an isolated cycle crossing less so.

So for me the best things I can do are:

1 Cycle everywhere I go.
2 Encourage others to consider saving money and becoming fitter by cycling.
3 Ignore the trash social media and tabloid press.

All imo.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Round here (Halton) they do seem to have made a decent attempt to put cycle lanes where they can

not always sensibly - as always - but they have done it

and when I have reported problems - overgrowing bushes and all that - then they do seem to have been fixed quite quickly

and that Boardman chappie seems to have been making an effort over there in Manchester

Steve Rotheram (the Liverpool City Region mayor for those that don;t follow such things) talks well about it but often seems to forget that his region is not just Merseyside and has Halton stuck on the edge with chewing gum and tape
but at least some effort is being made

probably

 

[mjr]

that Boardman chappie seems to have been making an effort over there in Manchester

replaced by Dame Sarah Storey in 2022. Guess she's not made as much of an impression on you!

 

[Oldhippy]

The critical mass rides don't seem to be a thing anymore. Done properly and with respect they would prove a point perhaps. He said hopefully.

 

[mjr]

The critical mass rides don't seem to be a thing anymore. Done properly and with respect they would prove a point perhaps. He said hopefully.

They still exist in a few places but seem more sporadic than the old monthlies. The Norwich ones I've ridden were awfully polite.

There's also "kiddical mass" in some cities, mixing it with the child campaign idea from earlier.

Cambridge used to have a similar but less political "Cam Ride Home" on the last Friday each month. No idea if it still does. Most recent pics are last year on CycleStreets » Photomap » Photos tagged 'camridehome' – https://www.cyclestreets.net/photomap/tags/camridehome/

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Agreed.

If a town or city gets to a tipping point where cyclists/skaters/scooters/walking become the norm then drivers' behaviour changes significantly encouraging other people to cycle too.

Things like ULEZ and joined up cycle routes help, slapping some paint on the road and installing an isolated cycle crossing less so.

So for me the best things I can do are:

1 Cycle everywhere I go.
2 Encourage others to consider saving money and becoming fitter by cycling.
3 Ignore the trash social media and tabloid press.

All imo.

Very well put.

Having just come back from the Netherlands, what immediately strikes you is the priority given to cars here.

Street design is completely different; with whatever space there is there is *always* plenty of room for pedestrians and bicycles. Cars come last.

Here, the priority is the opposite. Streets are designed for cars, and other users have to make do with what is left.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Of the 14 countries we've cycled through this year, I'd rate UK as pretty much the worst experience to cycle in from both infrastructure and driver behaviour. Probably only Kosovo was worse on infrastructure.

Many countries have good infrastructure (Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czechia, Bosnia), some had little need for it where we were (Montenegro, North Macedonia), some are patchy (Italy, Albania, France to an extent) and some are excellent (NL, Germany).

Things can only get better!

 

[mjr]

Things can only get better!

The USA is worse and some politicritters want us to follow them, so I disagree. We will hopefully not, though!

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

replaced by Dame Sarah Storey in 2022. Guess she's not made as much of an impression on you!

Clearly not!!!
I thought he was wittering on about something in his role not that long ago


Oh well

he does however have the advantage of coming from a civilised part of the country (just up the road from me when I was a kid)

 

[mjr]

I thought he was wittering on about something in his role not that long ago

You might have missed that he moved to a similar role for all of England in 2022. Happily, it's a role that he seems to have kept so far, despite the changes of Prime Minister, Transport Minister and government.

I sometimes get a bit bleak about the stupid decisions of government, but if even Dubai wants to be a Cycling City by 2040, there must be hope, right? I wish I could do takedowns like this video (excuse the ad) but I suspect ranting like this is ineffective, even if it feels gooooooood. Our local stupid decisions are probably too mundane to be so scathing about.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWEjXVUAZ7Y