Is 'racist' humour ever acceptable?

[Blue]

In which case, you may not be racist, or whatever, but you are rude. If someone asked me not to use a certain word, I'd try and respect that. If I felt they were being stupid or oversensitive to do so (and I think Helen has a perfectly good right to her choice),.

As has already been explained, Helen is mistaken in relation to the origin of the word in question and is, therefore, taking offence on a false premise.

I'm not sure that it is correct to call someone rude on such a basis.

After all, handicapped is a word that is in common usage, including use in sporting activities, and means nothing more that that someone is at a disadvantage of some sort.

IMO, the fact that 'disabled' may be a more appropriate word doesn't make 'handicapped' rude, per se.

 

[Arch]

IMO, the fact that 'disabled' may be a more appropriate word doesn't make 'handicapped' rude, per se.

No, the word may not be rude as such, but if someone asks you not to use it and you do, that is.

My full name is Susannah. People frequently fail to get this right, so I pretty much introduce myself as Sue these days, because I really dislike all the shortened versions in between. If someone called me Susanne (the one I dislike most) and I asked them to call me either Susannah, or Sue, and they persisted in using Susanne, than I'd say that was rude. The names aren't rude, but I think I have a right to ask people to address me how I prefer, not how they prefer.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

If someone asked me not to use a certain word, I'd try and respect that.

Please do not use the word elephant.

Ok, if I ever meet you, I'll make sure I don't...

This is how we end up not being able to say the word "blackboard".
I'm not arguing against anyone's right not to be called "handicapped" (not a word I would use, although I wasn't aware of its possible derivation), but if you go down this road, where does it stop? I know otherwise sensible people who use "chalkboard" because "blackboard" is supposedly offensive to black people. So, if you meet one of John Marrick's descendents, should you avoid using the word "elephant"? How would you know? I think it's usually pretty clear when something is said with intent to wound and when it's not. That's the important aspect of racism for me, not the actual words.
I know this makes it sound like I run around all day using words like "Paki". I don't, honest ...

 

[Rhythm Thief]

No, the word may not be rude as such, but if someone asks you not to use it and you do, that is.

My full name is Susannah. People frequently fail to get this right, so I pretty much introduce myself as Sue these days, because I really dislike all the shortened versions in between. If someone called me Susanne (the one I dislike most) and I asked them to call me either Susannah, or Sue, and they persisted in using Susanne, than I'd say that was rude. The names aren't rude, but I think I have a right to ask people to address me how I prefer, not how they prefer.

That's a fair point. Although if I was asked not to use the word "blackboard" I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face.

 

[Arch]

That's a fair point. Although if I was asked not to use the word "blackboard" I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face.

But I've not asked you to do that, I agree, that is a step too far. But it's only polite to listen to people's requests and try to act on them.

 

[Night Train]

Terry Wogan is racist in my opinion.
Jokes regarding someone's nationality or country can be funny as a play on words etc. However, to deliberately belittle someone or a whole group of people by laughing at, and making fun of, an attribute that they have is insulting and rude.

Wogan has done this with various nationalities and I have written to the BBC about it a number of times and it has reduced considerably.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

But I've not asked you to do that, I agree, that is a step too far. But it's only polite to listen to people's requests and try to act on them.

Oh, I understand that. My point was that I do have a friend who won't use the word "blackboard" because he's been told it's racist. In any sensible world, we'd be able to simply tell these people to stop being so bloody sensitive and get on with their lives.
As I say, this is making me out to be much more of a bigot than I actually am. I just think there has to be a line somewhere, and I think that "handicapped", "Paki" and "darkie" are on one side of it, and "blackboard" is firmly on the other.

 

[Arch]

I don't know, but I suspect the whole 'blackboard' thing didn't actually come from a black person, but from an over zealous white person. In which case, it is daft, I quite agree.

 

[MarkF]

I don't know, but I suspect the whole 'blackboard' thing didn't actually come from a black person, but from an over zealous white person. In which case, it is daft, I quite agree.

When delivery guys try to find Wayne in our industrial estate, I have seen and heard people, tying themselves in knots trying to describe him without saying BLACK. He can't understand it, he is 6' 4" and very black, it's not as if he wants to be called Jigaboo but "big black guy" would speed a lot of stuff up.

 

[vernon]

I don't know, but I suspect the whole 'blackboard' thing didn't actually come from a black person, but from an over zealous white person. In which case, it is daft, I quite agree.

I live in a local authority where some over zealous fools insisted that the bin men used grey bin bags to avoid offending the black community. How daft was that?

There are too many 'black by proxy' members of the white community taking decisions on behalf of folk whose life style they can't ever hope to experience and empathise with, by making wild assertions and assumptions. It is a form of racism - attributing a set of flase values to an ethnic minority group.

Their idiotic stances sometimes makes me ashamed to be a member of a minority group. Not because of my minority peers but because of the outsiders misrepresenting me.

 

[MarkF]

I live in a local authority where some over zealous fools insisted that the bin men used grey bin bags to avoid offending the black community. How daft was that?

Is that genuine?

There are too many 'black by proxy' members of the white community taking decisions on behalf of folk whose life style they can't ever hope to experience and empathise with, by making wild assertions and assumptions. It is a form of racism - attributing a set of flase values to an ethnic minority group.

Their idiotic stances sometimes makes me ashamed to be a member of a minority group. Not because of my minority peers but because of the outsiders misrepresenting me.

Well said.

 

[papercorn2000]

Mr. Pig, yer a buckfast-swigging, priest-fettling, dole-sponger and you'll vote for any donkey in a red rosette!

 

[Auntie Helen]

Just for the record, I don't think I'm particularly PC, I offer people black tea (rather than tea without milk), talk about a blackboard or whiteboard, and I might even mention 'brainstorming' (PC people say you should say 'thought shower' rather than brainstorm as brainstorm might hint at mental illness). I refer to people as black or Irish or Jewish or whatever.

HOWEVER, I don't like the use of 'handicapped' for various reasons. Clearly the original derivation reason is a red herring, although it was what I had previously been told, but it DOES still have the connotation of kids who are locked away in a special school or whatever. I have a fairly mild physical disability with one of my arms, no big deal at all, but I prefer the concept of 'disabled' as it describes me (not entirely able to do things with that arm) rather than giving the impression that I shouldn't be working at all, which to me the term 'handicapped' can in some cases. I am happy to use the term 'handicapped' for golf or horse racing because that's the term and it doesn't have negative connotations in that area.

I do, think, though if I had a friend or acquaintance who really hated, for example, attention being drawn to the fact that they were overweight, that I wouldn't make fattist jokes at them. If they found those kind of jokes really funny and laughed along (and genuinely appeared OK with them, not just covering up) then I could feel comfortable about making those jokes (as long as they didn't turn them back on me!)

Someone above asked whether we should modify what we say for every random person of our acquaintance? Of course that isn't practicable, but if you meet for the first time someone who is black or from another ethnic minority, disabled, whatever, it's probably a sensible plan to avoid making too many dodgy comments until you've got their measure. And if they say that they don't mind or do mind you using a specific word or phrase, it's good manners to try to accommodate that as much as you can.

But that's just my opinion and, hey, what do others' opinions matter in the great scheme of things?

 

[Blue]

No, the word may not be rude as such, but if someone asks you not to use it and you do, that is.

.

I don't agree.

In this case someone was offended because of her erroneous belief about the origin of a word. I don't think that there is any problem with correcting the 'erroneously offended' person. If the word was, indeed, generally recognised as offensive then, yes, it would be rude to continue using it. To suggest that we should moderate our use of language because of anothers error based belief is silly.

I feel that use of nicknames is an entirely different issue.

 

[Auntie Helen]

As that was directed at me, may I point out that there are many reasons people don't like the word 'handicapped' and not just because of the supposed etymological reason but also the other reasons I have used above. Why do you think that generally the word is being sidelined? It's not just me misunderstanding its origin! I'm not that powerful!