Is Lube Necessary During Summer?

[nmfeb70]

@nmfeb70 excellent and sounds like a good result. As I said earlier that quick wipe works wonders after every ride. I lubed mine yesterday after two wet rides, it may or may not need doing again in a week or so.

The rag wipe is the opportunity to give the chain the very important quick check. For me maintaining a clean, properly lubed chain set is the single most important bit of regular maintenance.

Yes @PaulSB, seems to do the trick without being too laborious. Incidentally, "wet rides?" We're having a heatwave here in the usually saturated Welsh valleys!

 

[PaulSB]

Yes @PaulSB, seems to do the trick without being too laborious. Incidentally, "wet rides?" We're having a heatwave here in the usually saturated Welsh valleys!

We had a ride on Sunday that got a bit damp and then yesterday was wet!!! Sun back today.

 

[silva]

The assumption that the wax gets pushed away isn’t necessarily valid. It’s possible the wax will remain as a layer between the surfaces, dependant on applied load and the wax’s properties. The same goes for oil.

At a microscopic level the wax will likely melt at surface asperity contact points where there is a local high temperature and form a fluid that lubricates and then sets as the pressure and temperature subside.

If the mating surfaces of the steel chain parts wear, how on earth would wax be able to resist that pressure?
And steel is a very good heat transporter. Any heat generation is quickly dissipated. And certainly at bicycle transmission speeds lol. So wax melting? Maybe if you hang a hairdryer behind the jockey wheel and drag a mains cable behind you.

 

[Sterlo]

Amazon product ASIN B0016ZXE06View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/White-Lightning-Unisex-Adult-Lubricant/dp/B0016ZXE06/

@ £10 per 100ml (in UK, rather less in the States it seems) I hope it does.
"Clean Ride™ White Lightning chain lube has become world renown (sic) because it actually repels and sheds dirt and grime from the chain and other drivetrain components while you ride." We were tempted to call it 'Snake Oil' but our market department suggested not.

I did wonder what an "adult lubricant" was, very disappointing to find it's only chain lube.

 

[figbat]

If the mating surfaces of the steel chain parts wear, how on earth would wax be able to resist that pressure?
And steel is a very good heat transporter. Any heat generation is quickly dissipated. And certainly at bicycle transmission speeds lol. So wax melting? Maybe if you hang a hairdryer behind the jockey wheel and drag a mains cable behind you.

I’m talking about microscopic, momentary ‘flash’ temperatures caused by surfaces asperities interacting. They are so small that the contact pressure between them causes them to bend, break or even weld momentarily together. This is where wear comes from, when these asperities ‘poke through’ the lubricant film. An oil or wax layer can support a great deal of load, often because it is essentially trapped between the two surfaces and can’t move away quickly enough. Oils also exhibit non-Newtonian behaviour at high pressures, becoming thicker.

 

[DRM]

Why does the weather matter? Sliding metal contacts need lubrication to reduce friction and improve life regardless of the weather. You can go without, but at the expense of efficiency and wear.

This exactly, metal rubbing on metal will wear, dry weather has nothing to do with wear not occurring, no need to lube after every ride, but perhaps a thorough degrease, clean & use a dry lube for dusty trails will prevent excess oil turning into a grinding paste, wet lube is better for when the weather turns wetter.

 

[silva]

I’m talking about microscopic, momentary ‘flash’ temperatures caused by surfaces asperities interacting. They are so small that the contact pressure between them causes them to bend, break or even weld momentarily together. This is where wear comes from, when these asperities ‘poke through’ the lubricant film. An oil or wax layer can support a great deal of load, often because it is essentially trapped between the two surfaces and can’t move away quickly enough. Oils also exhibit non-Newtonian behaviour at high pressures, becoming thicker.

Of course some lubricant is trapped, otherwise there would be no lubrication at all.
The point is that every load cycle some lubricant is NOT trapped and pushed (further) away from the loaded area.
With a low viscosity lubricant like oil, it flows back (gravity, inertia) during the unloaded phase. The higher the viscosity (like wax) the less that flows back.
Put some wax on a table.
Put some oil next to it.
Push with a pencil in the wax. You see a permanent hole in it.
Push in the oil. You see a hole that refills.

 

[silva]

This exactly, metal rubbing on metal will wear, dry weather has nothing to do with wear not occurring, no need to lube after every ride, but perhaps a thorough degrease, clean & use a dry lube for dusty trails will prevent excess oil turning into a grinding paste, wet lube is better for when the weather turns wetter.

There are too many variables to judge on a few.
There is mud and there is dust.
The difference is water.
Water and oil and wax makes sticky (in different degrees).
Higher temperatures dry faster, lower temperatures slower.
In a combination of variables dry and dust and high temperature, the benefit of nothing to stick (so no oil) may outweight the drawback of no lubrication (from wear perspective).

"Dry lube" is as contradictional as "hot icecream".

 

[DRM]

There are too many variables to judge on a few.
There is mud and there is dust.
The difference is water.
Water and oil and wax makes sticky (in different degrees).
Higher temperatures dry faster, lower temperatures slower.
In a combination of variables dry and dust and high temperature, the benefit of nothing to stick (so no oil) may outweight the drawback of no lubrication (from wear perspective).

"Dry lube" is as contradictional as "hot icecream".

The op stated dusty trails, never mentioned mud, water or such like, dry lube is used for just that scenario, wet (oily) lube will get dust/grit particles sticking to it & turn to grinding paste wrecking the drive train in no time, which is why I also said wet lube for wet weather, as this washes out dry lube, no lube is a no no, it’s not rocket science.

 

[figbat]

Of course some lubricant is trapped, otherwise there would be no lubrication at all.
The point is that every load cycle some lubricant is NOT trapped and pushed (further) away from the loaded area.
With a low viscosity lubricant like oil, it flows back (gravity, inertia) during the unloaded phase. The higher the viscosity (like wax) the less that flows back.
Put some wax on a table.
Put some oil next to it.
Push with a pencil in the wax. You see a permanent hole in it.
Push in the oil. You see a hole that refills.

I'm aware of how lubricants work. 28 years of product development, technical support and technical training on the matter has given me a few insights. If what you are saying is true then there is no place ever for waxes or greases to lubricate things.

 

[Nigelnightmare]

There are too many variables to judge on a few.
There is mud and there is dust.
The difference is water.
Water and oil and wax makes sticky (in different degrees).
Higher temperatures dry faster, lower temperatures slower.
In a combination of variables dry and dust and high temperature, the benefit of nothing to stick (so no oil) may outweight the drawback of no lubrication (from wear perspective).

"Dry lube" is as contradictional as "hot icecream".

"Baked Alaska" anyone?

 

[wafter]

Of course some lubricant is trapped, otherwise there would be no lubrication at all.
The point is that every load cycle some lubricant is NOT trapped and pushed (further) away from the loaded area.
With a low viscosity lubricant like oil, it flows back (gravity, inertia) during the unloaded phase. The higher the viscosity (like wax) the less that flows back.
Put some wax on a table.
Put some oil next to it.
Push with a pencil in the wax. You see a permanent hole in it.
Push in the oil. You see a hole that refills.

On a macroscopic level the wax is certainly displaced, but microscopically I suspect it fills / is retained by the voids in the surfaces concerned, leaving a thin layer intact. Whatever the mechanism there seems plenty of evidence (scientifically-derived and anecdotal) that it significantly reduces both friction and wear.

I think the migration of oil in and out of the joints might actually work against it to an extent as it seem plausible that any flow back into the load-bearing areas could take with it fine, abrasive particulate contamination and accelerate wear.

I've been waxing my chains for a while but haven't yet covered enough mileage to give any idea of its effects on chain life..

 

[silva]

On a macroscopic level the wax is certainly displaced, but microscopically I suspect it fills / is retained by the voids in the surfaces concerned, leaving a thin layer intact. Whatever the mechanism there seems plenty of evidence (scientifically-derived and anecdotal) that it significantly reduces both friction and wear.

I think the migration of oil in and out of the joints might actually work against it to an extent as it seem plausible that any flow back into the load-bearing areas could take with it fine, abrasive particulate contamination and accelerate wear.

I've been waxing my chains for a while but haven't yet covered enough mileage to give any idea of its effects on chain life..

A void/hole is not part of the mating surfaces. It sits below it. So any lubricant trapped in such does not lower the friction of the mating surfaces. And wax viscosity is alot higher than oil, oil can enter locations that wax cannot reach.
Wax may have some positive effect, in that it is less sticky than oil, and due to viscous, may block dirt going in.
Question then is, what is dominant cause of wear? Worn off material from the chain, from the sprockets or dirt from wherever?
Look at some motorcycle chains, link parts sealed. That prevents dirt going in, but also prevents worn off material from the link parts to get out. Apparently, the latter is less wearing than the former. Otherwise seals would be useless.

 

[Notafettler]

Up to you, chains are consumable so you may need a new one sooner.
You could try dry lube as that is less likely to attract dirt.

Ideally get lube into the chain then wipe the outer parts clean which is what I do.
At least then the inner parts get the oil which is the important part.

Chains, chain wheels and sprockets are not consumables....on a rohloff!!

 

[Notafettler]

I remember cleaning my chain late spring every year. I then lubricate it, if it rains I may need to lubricate again. Cleaning is rarely more than once a year. Partly due to forgetting but mainly due to bone idleness. I use oil from a small bottle with a picture of an indoor rowing machine on. No idea when or where I got it from (had it for a very long time) I do have some dry lubricate somewhere so I may have put that on. You have to lubricate it bit more often in the winter. For me it's when I notice rust on the chain. I forget to check otherwise I wouldn't let it get to that state.