Internal Cabling issues

[bpsmith]

How many people complain about rattles from external cables?

With 11 speed cassettes, by producing narrower chains and spacing between sprockets on the cassette, the tolerances are tighter meaning more issues with keeping the drive train running smoothly. I'm not a luddite, but I sometimes wonder just how much of a benefit it is to the normal consumer when the industry produces ever more complicated parts which aren't backwards compatible.

How many complain of rattling bikes in general? Loads!

The same argument could be made of 10 speed over 9 speed, 9 speed over 8 speed...

My 11 speed runs very well. In fact better than the 10 speed on my other bike. Unfair to compare as Ultegra vs 105, but it's a fact nonetheless.

What 11 speed are you running with internal cabling?

 

[Pumpkin the robot]

My Battaglin is 25 years old and has internal cables, when I first got it, it did have a lot of problems with the rear brake cable rattling inside the tube, but since I had it powder coated last year, I have not had any problems with it at all!

 

[compo]

When stripping down my Pug a couple of weeks ago I never gave a thought to how I was going to re-thread the cable outer back through the frame as I removed the whole lot, inner and outer!

 

[Flying Dodo]

How many complain of rattling bikes in general? Loads!

But that's a separate issue of course. This thread is purely about some people mentioning they have issues with cables rattling inside. I've never heard anyone complain about an external cable rattling.

The same argument could be made of 10 speed over 9 speed, 9 speed over 8 speed...

And it is! Which is kind of my point about technological improvements being forced on the general public, regardless of whether or not they make life better.

My 11 speed runs very well. In fact better than the 10 speed on my other bike. Unfair to compare as Ultegra vs 105, but it's a fact nonetheless.

Excellent! However clearly other people aren't as lucky as you and do have issues.

What 11 speed are you running with internal cabling?

I'm not - I'm referring to the comments made here complaining about the issue, and what I've seen as a bike mechanic.


A simple example is in the case of a bike with internal cabling where it's just a cable only running inside, not an outer. It's definitely a lot of hassle and takes far longer to put a new cable on, then a conventional external cable. Does this improvement really help a day to day cyclist?

 

[Cuchilo]

No rattles on my Giant TCR . I bet they bloody start now though

 

[bpsmith]

But that's a separate issue of course. This thread is purely about some people mentioning they have issues with cables rattling inside. I've never heard anyone complain about an external cable rattling.

Yet you felt the need to comment about 11 speed groupsets?

And it is! Which is kind of my point about technological improvements being forced on the general public, regardless of whether or not they make life better.

Nothing is forced onto anyone. We all make our choice of what to buy. If there were no externally cabled bikes, then I could accept this argument, even if I didn't agree.

A simple example is in the case of a bike with internal cabling where it's just a cable only running inside, not an outer. It's definitely a lot of hassle and takes far longer to put a new cable on, then a conventional external cable. Does this improvement really help a day to day cyclist?

As above, a day to day cyclist would choose other options if this was a factor. Or they would pay to have the cable replaced periodically. Depends on their technical ability or will to tinker.

I am not alone in being problem free. You are suggesting that this is a widespread problem and that I am in a significant minority. This is simply untrue.

 

[woohoo]

I've got a Bianchi Sempre Pro and don't have any cable rattling issues but I did have to change the front changer cable when I fitted an inline adjuster. I thought I might have problems threading the new cable through the frame (I didn't, a it turn out) and bought some 1.5mm PVC tube plastic hose (the sort of thing they use in fish tanks, I guess) to put over the old cable as I withdrew it and to provide a guide for the new one. If I had any rattling cables, I would be tempted to cover a good part of the cable with this stuff (allowing for movement at either end) and see if that cured it.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Yet you felt the need to comment about 11 speed groupsets?



Nothing is forced onto anyone. We all make our choice of what to buy. If there were no externally cabled bikes, then I could accept this argument, even if I didn't agree.



As above, a day to day cyclist would choose other options if this was a factor. Or they would pay to have the cable replaced periodically. Depends on their technical ability or will to tinker.

I am not alone in being problem free. You are suggesting that this is a widespread problem and that I am in a significant minority. This is simply untrue.

Sorry - you're clearly reading something I haven't stated. Nowhere have I said it's a widespread problem or that you're in a minority, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to state that. All I've said is "some people". The fact that this thread exists but there isn't one for some people or even 1 person mentioning rattles with external cables shows there are some issues.

You've neatly sidestepped my comment about the definite problem with dealing with internal cables without an outer. Why should something simple like a bike end up being outside the ability of someone to fix it, and force them to pay someone else to do it? Obviously many people don't want to do any maintenance on their bike anyway, and that's absolutely fine. However, bearing in mind an increasing number of bikes do now come with internal cables, for those without outers running inside you either put up with a convoluted way of changing a cable which takes time and ideally a vacuum cleaner, or you have to pay someone to do it. The simple option of doing it yourself in a few seconds by simply threading a cable through an external outer has been taken away from you.

And in respect of 11 speed, as I'd previously mentioned, I'd only highlighted that as possibly another example of a technological improvement which doesn't really help the day to day cyclist.

 

[Pumpkin the robot]

The internal cable on my bike keeps the outer cable inside the tube and is easier to set up than a bike with external cables.
I cant see what is wrong with more gears? I would think the majority of cyclists could not ride a single speed bike. Surely more gears, closer together ratios is a good thing?

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Sorry - you're clearly reading something I haven't stated. Nowhere have I said it's a widespread problem or that you're in a minority, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to state that. All I've said is "some people". The fact that this thread exists but there isn't one for some people or even 1 person mentioning rattles with external cables shows there are some issues.

You've neatly sidestepped my comment about the definite problem with dealing with internal cables without an outer. Why should something simple like a bike end up being outside the ability of someone to fix it, and force them to pay someone else to do it? Obviously many people don't want to do any maintenance on their bike anyway, and that's absolutely fine. However, bearing in mind an increasing number of bikes do now come with internal cables, for those without outers running inside you either put up with a convoluted way of changing a cable which takes time and ideally a vacuum cleaner, or you have to pay someone to do it. The simple option of doing it yourself in a few seconds by simply threading a cable through an external outer has been taken away from you.

And in respect of 11 speed, as I'd previously mentioned, I'd only highlighted that as possibly another example of a technological improvement which doesn't really help the day to day cyclist.

Can't really comment on the 11 speed but I think you are right on the internal cables.

I have no idea what problem this 'solution' solved - presumably it shaved 0.0000000something% off the bikes drag co-efficient.

Exterior cables work fine even on filthy MTB's. Once every umpteen months you might need to rip one out and replace it which is the work of minutes - where's the problem there?

Maybe internal looks prettier to some people. Maybe it's just plain trendy. Who knows.

FWIW when I was looking at buying a new bike two years ago I was looking into internal cable rattles and fired off queries to Cube & Rose:

Cube - did not bother to reply but some while later I read that they were retrospectively fitting a kit (?) to stop internal cable rattling issues.

Rose (paraphrased) "we cannot guarantee that internal cable routing will not cause rattles and in the event that it does it will not affect the functionality of the bike".

Me - a rattle would drive me nuts so I didn't bother with either company - plus Cube seem to struggle with the whole logistics issue of getting bikes to consumers within a reasonable time frame.

 

[bpsmith]

If you asked both of them about rattles absolutely anywhere on the bike, I would imagine the response would be the same again!

 

[Flying Dodo]

The internal cable on my bike keeps the outer cable inside the tube and is easier to set up than a bike with external cables.
I cant see what is wrong with more gears? I would think the majority of cyclists could not ride a single speed bike. Surely more gears, closer together ratios is a good thing?

Although others have commented on rattles with internal cables generally, I was specifically highlighting what a hassle internal cables without an outer are. If you really want a particular bike and it's equipped that way, you're stuck with the hassle.

In respect of 11 speed, comparing it to single speed isn't a valid comparison. Whilst 10 speed is a marked improvement on 5 speed (and I certainly wouldn't want to go back to those days) the change from 10 to 11 is very small. Using a 105 groupset as an example, an 11-28 cassette in the 11 speed version goes 11,12,13,14,15,17,19, 21, 23, 25, 28. The 10 speed version goes 11, 12, 13, 14,15, 17,19, 21, 24, 28. So not a massive difference. Sheldon Brown reckoned 10 speed chains wore more than 9. And an 11 speed chain is narrower than a 10, so implying wear would be greater. Of course for weight weenies, the 11 speed cassette is about 10% heavier which may of course be a more important factor for some!

 

[bpsmith]

Those 2 gears on 11 speed (23 and 25) are far better spaced than jumping from 21 to 24, then 24 to 28 on the 10 speed. I find myself needing the 28 less, now that I have the 25 instead of the 24.

On an 11-25 cassette, you gain from having a 16 as your extra gear, which makes it a lot nicer when you find yourself in between gears.

If you don't think its worth it for only 1 extra gear, then why have you got 10 speed over 9 speed, etc.

 

[Flying Dodo]

Those 2 gears on 11 speed (23 and 25) are far better spaced than jumping from 21 to 24, then 24 to 28 on the 10 speed. I find myself needing the 28 less, now that I have the 25 instead of the 24.

On an 11-25 cassette, you gain from having a 16 as your extra gear, which makes it a lot nicer when you find yourself in between gears.

If you don't think its worth it for only 1 extra gear, then why have you got 10 speed over 9 speed, etc.

At best, the improvement in jumps is marginal and a lot of people wouldn't really notice it.

Having said that, if you're not using the 28 cog much, fairly soon then you'll be able to swap from the 11-28 and get an 11-25 instead as that weighs 5% less.

On the bikes I've bought, there wasn't an option to specify 9 speed rather than 10. Obviously the push towards 11 speed is all part of consumerism generally, to "persuade" the general public they must have the next new thing, regardless of whether it's actually better or worth it. But that's another issue.

 

[Pumpkin the robot]

I use a 12-30 sprocket and there is a big difference between some of the cogs. Not everyone has a dinner plate on the back though! An extra gear would be welcome if it closed the ratios up. I agree, not much point on an extra cog if you are running close ratios already.
The one thing I would say is that materials and manufacturing techniques improve all the time and although the chain and sprockets are thinner, you may be able to make them better (closer tolerances etc) and actually get better wear, Not saying it is the case in this instance, but engineering is always moving forward. The stuff I learnt in my toolmaking apprenticeship 25 years ago has very little to do with the skills I need now and the work we do is far more accurate now.