snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
It's most likely another side effect of that dazzlingly yellow t shirt that has invaded our premises, ******* hi-viz evangelists.
Injured Fox in my garden - what to do.
- Thread starter spen666
- Start date
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slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
That's a bit of a non sequitur isn't it?
Cubist
Still wavin'
- Location
- Ovver 'thill
@User9609
In our last exchange I tried to point out that your vision of shooting estates is monocular. You rail against shooters in the mistake belief that all shooting follows the pattern of the upland grouse moor. You linked to examples of raptor persecution that quite rightly should be damned out of existence, in an effort to bolster your argument that all shooters are cruel cold blooded killers. I gave you examples of shooters who have a genuine love of the countryside and biodiversity, but you returned to state you simply didn't believe anything of what I said.
Now I return to further condemn anachronistic and unsustainable practice and once again you argue with my reasoning.
My personal experience is of shooting over agricultural land, in a landscape infrastructure that has been forged on the tradition of shooting. Round woods, cover strips, beetle banks, cover hedgerows.... none of those would exist without shooting. Its an environment that benefits species other than the intended quarry, with insect numbers and cover that benefit songbirds as much as it allows the laid down birds to thrive. Many shooters genuinely see themselves as stewards of the countryside. I as much as you condemn the abhorrent persecution of raptors reported by the various organisations, but I am also wary of the levels truth warping and misinformation.
My example of buzzards in my post above goes some way to show that that balance between ethical management and biodiversity is entirely possible.
That shooting continues today, not the corporate obscenity of huge bags shot to entertain like so many winged targets, but ethical, responsible affairs with genuine folk enjoying a sport which not all will understand or endorse. However much you believe all shooters shoot only for the thrill of killing, I can assure you that for me, and for all that I know, the act of killing a gamebird is far more ethical than the consumption of factory farmed meat. I cannot deny a pleasure in taking part, to do so would be hypocritical, but the act of killing is not the sadistic abuse many make it out to be. Far more hypocritical in my opinion is the person who rails against shooting, yet still eats meat. I can accept ambivalence from the person who doesn't think twice about how the meat reaches their plate, but for someone to decry shooters as barbaric, yet still enjoy a roast lamb shows a disconnect in thinking that is beyond logic. I would have far greater respect for a vegetarian.
To return to my original point. Shooting takes many forms. Tar us all with the same brush and you are in danger of reacting in Pavlovian fashion to the misinformation of the class-warrior anti. Not all shoots are what you describe as bio-deserts. If they are, how come I can enjoy listening to the Curlew and Skylarks on the nearby grouse moor? It's still a managed shoot, yet it has abundant hares and ground nesting birds. How come there is a very healthy population of English Partridge on my syndicate shoot? We imposed a voluntary moratorium on shooting them years ago, and all thirty members are rightly proud to be able to say we have been responsible for their thriving in substantial numbers.
In our last exchange I tried to point out that your vision of shooting estates is monocular. You rail against shooters in the mistake belief that all shooting follows the pattern of the upland grouse moor. You linked to examples of raptor persecution that quite rightly should be damned out of existence, in an effort to bolster your argument that all shooters are cruel cold blooded killers. I gave you examples of shooters who have a genuine love of the countryside and biodiversity, but you returned to state you simply didn't believe anything of what I said.
Now I return to further condemn anachronistic and unsustainable practice and once again you argue with my reasoning.
My personal experience is of shooting over agricultural land, in a landscape infrastructure that has been forged on the tradition of shooting. Round woods, cover strips, beetle banks, cover hedgerows.... none of those would exist without shooting. Its an environment that benefits species other than the intended quarry, with insect numbers and cover that benefit songbirds as much as it allows the laid down birds to thrive. Many shooters genuinely see themselves as stewards of the countryside. I as much as you condemn the abhorrent persecution of raptors reported by the various organisations, but I am also wary of the levels truth warping and misinformation.
My example of buzzards in my post above goes some way to show that that balance between ethical management and biodiversity is entirely possible.
That shooting continues today, not the corporate obscenity of huge bags shot to entertain like so many winged targets, but ethical, responsible affairs with genuine folk enjoying a sport which not all will understand or endorse. However much you believe all shooters shoot only for the thrill of killing, I can assure you that for me, and for all that I know, the act of killing a gamebird is far more ethical than the consumption of factory farmed meat. I cannot deny a pleasure in taking part, to do so would be hypocritical, but the act of killing is not the sadistic abuse many make it out to be. Far more hypocritical in my opinion is the person who rails against shooting, yet still eats meat. I can accept ambivalence from the person who doesn't think twice about how the meat reaches their plate, but for someone to decry shooters as barbaric, yet still enjoy a roast lamb shows a disconnect in thinking that is beyond logic. I would have far greater respect for a vegetarian.
To return to my original point. Shooting takes many forms. Tar us all with the same brush and you are in danger of reacting in Pavlovian fashion to the misinformation of the class-warrior anti. Not all shoots are what you describe as bio-deserts. If they are, how come I can enjoy listening to the Curlew and Skylarks on the nearby grouse moor? It's still a managed shoot, yet it has abundant hares and ground nesting birds. How come there is a very healthy population of English Partridge on my syndicate shoot? We imposed a voluntary moratorium on shooting them years ago, and all thirty members are rightly proud to be able to say we have been responsible for their thriving in substantial numbers.
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
Seeing as you've brought (and belittled) my job into the debate. You haven't told us your hourly rate or what you do for a living. Let me guess. Pen pusher maybe?
Lets make it simpler....
It is like you going to the Supermarket on Saturday and buying dinner for Thursday
Are you buying something you don' eat, or as with the fox, laying in a supply for next Thursday?
To imply that foxes kill and don't eat because they don't eat it immediately is untrue and a myth because left to the fox it WOULD be eaten
No , it's like me waiting for the supermarket to close and then breaking in and stealing as much as i can and smashing up what i cant take .
I agree and was simply replying to some kind of warped reasoning .
P.S. I also hate rats .
I'm happily ignorant of what a non wotsit is. I'm not particularly au fait with occams razor, straw man or some of the other bingo terms either.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
Would you go out on call to work on a Sunday at no notice. For £50? When it may cost you £5 in fuel, and £25 in costs? So £20 in your pocket for going out to work on a Sunday?
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
Isn't that something like, going to a supermarket. Fencing off all the chickens, and trying to tell everybody else they can't have them? Then shoot whoever comes and tries to take a chicken?
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
For half an hours work, yes i would.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
You say half hour of work? What do you suppose they do? Come, inject, and leave? Takes no time to organise disposal of the corpse?
But lets go with your "half hour"
So, after Tax and NI. You would do half hour of work, (not including leaving your Sunday off with the family to travel there and back) for around £14? That £14 will still have to cover any holidays you want off, or cover any sickness period.
If you will do that, that's your choice. But I certainly don't value my personal time with family that cheaply. While you understandably don't appreciate people belittling your work. You are belittling those who value their personal time over work time.
threebikesmcginty
Corn Fed Hick...
- Location
- ...on the slake
But I couldn't eat a whole one?
Cubist
Still wavin'
- Location
- Ovver 'thill
It seems vets have an ethical code of practice, and the call out charge can be made to the RSPCA.
http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=66
http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=66
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