Inexperienced e-Bike Riders [Local Problem?]

[PedallingNowhereSlowly]

Not forgetting ebikes are the choice of county line dealers. How else can a youth be riding £5,000 worth of bike?

Well, I witnessed a car driven erratically (some black SUV thing on a '09 plate) pull out of that same junction a day prior with a shed load of wheel spin and then turn immediately right into a pub car park where to youths on e-bikes were waiting. By the time I'd crossed the main road and started walking up the other side of it, they were being propelled along the footpath on the other side toward one of the housing estates - without pedalling. I dare say there was an exchange of some sort done in the car park.

Locally, there are a couple of takeaway delivery drivers using illegal e-bikes. I saw one on my evening ride that looked more like a moped - ridden along a cycleway without pedalling. I had to stop and pull right over to the left against a railing to get out of the 'conflict zone' (I don't like confrontations).

But, drawing things back on topic - there's illegal e-bike use (restrictions lifted/pavement cycling etc..) and things resembling e-bikes that were probably never legal as EAPC's under UK law in the first place - and I'm concerned that legal/responsible e-bike users and regular cyclists are going to face restrictions as a result of the irresponsible and unlawful use of these vehicles. Largely on account they they are causing conflict with a vocal minority who I think have a right to be heard. I just don't trust those in positions of power locally to see any distinction and act accordingly.

 

[classic33]

Well, I witnessed a car driven erratically (some black SUV thing on a '09 plate) pull out of that same junction a day prior with a shed load of wheel spin and then turn immediately right into a pub car park where to youths on e-bikes were weighting. By the time I'd crossed the main road and started walking up the other side of it, they were being propelled along the footpath on the other side toward one of the housing estates - without pedalling. I dare say there was an exchange of some sort done in the car park.

Locally, there are a couple of takeaway delivery drivers using illegal e-bikes. I saw one on my evening ride that looked more like a moped - ridden along a cycleway without pedalling. I had to stop and pull right over to the left against a railing to get out of the 'conflict zone' (I don't like confrontations).

But, drawing things back on topic - there's illegal e-bike use (restrictions lifted/pavement cycling etc..) and things resembling e-bikes that were probably never legal as EAPC's under UK law in the first place - and I'm concerned that legal/responsible e-bike users and regular cyclists are going to face restrictions as a result of the irresponsible and unlawful use of these vehicles. Largely on account they they are causing conflict with a vocal minority who I think have a right to be heard. I just don't trust those in positions of power locally to see any distinction and act accordingly.

The law in Ireland changes on the 20th, with regards e-assist and e-bikes, with those falling into the new e-moped class will be liable for registration and annual motor tax. Motor tax chargeable at €35 a year.
There's money to be made, and lost, from them.

 

[Slick]

Well, I witnessed a car driven erratically (some black SUV thing on a '09 plate) pull out of that same junction a day prior with a shed load of wheel spin and then turn immediately right into a pub car park where to youths on e-bikes were weighting. By the time I'd crossed the main road and started walking up the other side of it, they were being propelled along the footpath on the other side toward one of the housing estates - without pedalling. I dare say there was an exchange of some sort done in the car park.

Locally, there are a couple of takeaway delivery drivers using illegal e-bikes. I saw one on my evening ride that looked more like a moped - ridden along a cycleway without pedalling. I had to stop and pull right over to the left against a railing to get out of the 'conflict zone' (I don't like confrontations).

But, drawing things back on topic - there's illegal e-bike use (restrictions lifted/pavement cycling etc..) and things resembling e-bikes that were probably never legal as EAPC's under UK law in the first place - and I'm concerned that legal/responsible e-bike users and regular cyclists are going to face restrictions as a result of the irresponsible and unlawful use of these vehicles. Largely on account they they are causing conflict with a vocal minority who I think have a right to be heard. I just don't trust those in positions of power locally to see any distinction and act accordingly.

Why would we face restrictions because of the illegal actions of others?

What restrictions do you envisage?

 

[Drago]

Sadly making life difficult for the broadly law abiding folk, while doing little to address dangerous or offending behaviour is very much the British knee-jerk way of doing things. PSPOs are a prime example of that.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Why would we face restrictions because of the illegal actions of others?

What restrictions do you envisage?

Like restriction of legal ebikes and normal bikes due to the activities of people on illegal bikes??

 

[Slick]

Sadly making life difficult for the broadly law abiding folk, while doing little to address dangerous or offending behaviour is very much the British knee-jerk way of doing things. PSPOs are a prime example of that.

Whilst I will always defer to your previous experience, that is not how I experience the world, I've always assumed because I'm law abiding.

My brother has done his 25 years in the force, and his experiences and outlook on life are quite the polar opposite to me and it is clear to the both of us its because of what section of society he deals with.

That said, I really can't believe I or anyone else following the laws of the land will be penalised for doing so, when its already quite clear to everyone that they can do very little to those choosing to ignore current legislation.

It would be akin to penalising all car drivers because of the sheer number choosing to ignore posted speed limits.

 

[Slick]

Like restriction of legal ebikes and normal bikes due to the activities of people on illegal bikes??

Sorry, but pure pie in the sky.

 

[Slick]

Like restriction of legal ebikes and normal bikes due to the activities of people on illegal bikes??

And to be fair, if that became a requirement, then so be it, I would just register and carry on.

 

[Slick]

@classic33 has posted numerous times across more than this thread the more likely direction of travel for additional legislation that those that choose to ignore the current crop can feel free to ignore some new ones as well.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0517/1449835-e-bikes/

 

[All uphill]

I abhor illegal and inconsiderate behaviour by anyone, including people racing on their bikes round a park, people cycling on footpaths, and people driving cars in a way that scares and endangers pedestrians and cyclists.

This can give rise to a moral panic leading to poor law making.

As an optimist I have to check myself and recognise that the illegal ebikers are increasing motorists awareness of people on two wheels - and that is one reason they push back.

Maybe if we are going to get to the tipping point where cycling becomes normal we should take a more balanced view of escooters, ebikes and illegal ebikes.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

@classic33 has posted numerous times across more than this thread the more likely direction of travel for additional legislation that those that choose to ignore the current crop can feel free to ignore some new ones as well.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0517/1449835-e-bikes/

So - as usual - the only people who suffer from any new regulations are the people who obey the law and pay for the registration and license etc etc
and everyone else, who causes all the problems anyway, carries on as before
or has a removable "cheat device" that over-rides the limits but they can remove it for the test and then put it back afterwards

 

[Rusty Nails]

I have no issues at all with the use of e-bikes and e-scooters within the reasonable constraints of the law, I may even get an e-bike one day.

Imo the problems arise because there has been no real crackdown on the illegal use of either from the start, when the problems were less obvious, giving people the clear hint that they will get away with it, leading to increased usage which will now be much more difficult to curb.

 

[Drago]

It would be akin to penalising all car drivers because of the sheer number choosing to ignore posted speed limits.

Ah, we all know the rule applies not to car drivers because they're such a powerful financial lobby with enormous voting clout. Central government rarely look beyond the next election and for that reason would never dare push them too hard as a user group. That being the case motorists are the big exception that proves the rule and not a good example to cite to disprove my statement.

Conversely, as has been discussed elsewhere, PSPOs are being used to penalised sensible cyclists who present little risk in the first place, while the loons and those on illegal ebikes can't be caught (or refuse to stop for council wardens who have no actual powers to stop them anyway) and they go unaddressed.

Legislation is littered with examples of new laws that penalise those who were foing nothing wrong in the first place, while those who were breaking the law and are responsible for the introduction of invariably tighter new legislation now have a new law to ignore...much like they did the first one. They will carry on as before, while those who were never a problem in the first place now risk being criminalised because they're easy pickings compared to the actual dangerous offenders the new laws were intended to target.

Airgun laws in Scotland are a good example. Some total arrisholes were responsible for some nasty incidents, and were already breaking some quite serious laws (as serious as murder in some cases.) This prompted the introduction of airgun licencing (because we all know thar licences make people behave themselves...) so now people are being knocked off for minor, unintended or accidental infringement of the new licencing laws while those that were being idiots are not suddenly becoming law abiding and getting licenced and are carrying exactly as before.

Now when something happens the McDibbke are simply shaking down the nearest licence holders because its an easy thing to do when there are no genuine avenues of investigation, and law abiding people that are no risk to anyone are being hassled and having to jump through hoops whike the real dangerous folk are carrying on breaking the law.

Those that are breaking the law already don't suddenly become law abiding when another ,as takes its place.

I use that as an example,e because being a Scotsman and a shooter it's of interest to me and relevant to friends of mine spback home, but look around you and there are literally hundreds dress of examples where the law is tightened, often using tough terms like "crackdown", so those doing no harm are further inconvenienced while those breaking old laws simply carry on breaking new ones instead. It's a strangely British phenomenon.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

and everyone else, who causes all the problems anyway, carries on as before

It doesn't have to be that way.
The Dutch will test your bike on the road.

Maybe if we are going to get to the tipping point where cycling becomes normal we should take a more balanced view of escooters, ebikes and illegal ebikes.

Balanced views? Yes, you're definitely an optimist!

I find threads like these to be so negative and depressing. Lots of hot air but no-one actually doing anything or making suggestions to make a difference. Nothing will work. It's all doom and gloom. Hell in a handbasket is just around the corner. Let's all talk about the Mad Max future.

A simple "Whoah, you're going a bit fast there", delivered in the right tone would probably have been more effective and more cathartic than sitting down to calculate meters of travel per second using gps data and writing a long post online.

Unfortunately, once we 'other' someone we're less likely to talk to them as an equal. They're wrong. They're inferior. Once that comes across in the communication there is little hope of a positive connection.

An e-bike rider is a person on an e-bike.

 

[Drago]

I go by the example Nelson Mandela set.

Not the blowing stuff up terrorism bit. That is not something to be emulated.

No, I copy the simply existing quietly and not going away thing. I ride my bike regularly. I do so safely and diligently. Eventually someone else might do the same. And someone else. And one day we will be, if not the majority, then certainly a user group to be reckoned with.

I can't see and legislative or political solutions to our status as third rate scum. The only alternative is to not go away, to keep at it, to set the example, and like molecules in a vacuum we'll slowly attract others and perhaps one day coalesce into something to be taken seriously.

In doing so we should distance ourself visibly and loudly from illegal electric motorcycles, ebikes that have been illegally hopped-up. Even the Daily Mail and the like refer to high performance electric motocrossers as "ebikes", and we get tarred as a user group with someone else's brush,