Increased police presence.

[spen666]

The police have run the lorry thing near to my office (near Victoria) about once every couple of months through the last year, so it's certainly not new. I was surprised, having sat in the truck, that the visibility of a cyclist on the inside was better than I expected!

[pedant]visibilty of cyclists OUTSIDE the truck that is the issue![/pedant]

 

[glenn forger]

Johnny Law stopping cyclists on Chelsea Bridge. One rider pointed out the HGV in the ASL.

"Ah"

said the copper.

"There's no picture of a bike in the ASL so they're allowed to do that!"

 

[Frood42]

[pedant]visibilty of cyclists OUTSIDE the truck that is the issue![/pedant]

Not a very good pedant... perhaps a smiley might have helped, like this one

I believe he was referring to the visibiltiy of cyclists coming up the inside of the truck or up the left side or even up the nearside, which even I could pick from that sentence you quoted...

Just for you http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/nearside-offside.html
.

 

[spen666]

Not a very good pedant... perhaps a smiley might have helped, like this one

I believe he was referring to the visibiltiy of cyclists coming up the inside of the truck or up the left side or even up the nearside, which even I could pick from that sentence you quoted...

Just for you http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/nearside-offside.html
.

Can't do smiley's on my work Pc - seem to be blocked - probably because we use internet explorer caveman version


I WAS aware of what he meant

 

[glasgowcyclist]

It may matter because the clothing can give you a distinctive silhouette in the eye of the driver, as opposed to being a collection of lights among many.

It might.

I rely on good observation/anticipation, making eye contact with emerging drivers where possible, and always having a plan B. In my nightly commutes home, the amount of light pollution from motorvehicles all around me (in 30mph, built-up areas, so unnecessary) is so great that my silhouette is non-existent. Plus, I prefer not to be obviously a cyclist from the front, my light setup makes me look more like a small motorcycle until I'm too close. I like that because, in my experience, the earlier an emerging driver identifies me as a cyclist, the more likely he is to SMIDGAF me.

The reflective material on your bike must help, although I wonder how much is visible from the front, ie, when the driver is pulling out of a side junction in front of you.

Well, by its nature it only reflects in the eyes of the people viewing it from more or less the source of light hitting it, so it's not designed to be of most benefit in that scenario; that's why I have good quality, and properly aligned, front lighting. I am told, though, that the spoke reflectors are quite eye-catching even from the rear.



GC
PS Weren't you on Channel 5 the other night?

 

[Frood42]

Johnny Law stopping cyclists on Chelsea Bridge. One rider pointed out the HGV in the ASL.

"Ah"

said the copper.

"There's no picture of a bike in the ASL so they're allowed to do that!"

Hmmm, interesting one
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...le/223667/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-05.pdf
Page 100 (text) and 101 (diagram)

The diagrams have bikes in them, but the text makes no mention of them...
There is no mention that diagram 1057 (bike symbol) must be used in the resevoir area within the ASL design text... but it is mentioned in other areas when talking about cycle lane design, this would suggest (to me) that they are not a mandatory part of the ASL design, which would mean the officer was incorrect and the HGV was breaking the law by crossing the first white line on a red light (as I bolded below).

However this is my interpretation of what is written as an armchair engineer and not a real one!

I wonder if there are any road engineers or other sorts of engineers on here who would know better?


MARKINGS
ADVANCED STOP LINES FOR CYCLISTS
.
16.20 Figure 16-7 shows typical layouts for an advanced stop line (diagram 1001.2) forming a reservoir space for cyclists at signalled junctions.They may not be used at level crossings or standalonesignal-controlled crossings (for pedestrians, cyclists or equestrians).
.
16.21 Vehicles other than cycles must stop at the first line when signalled to do so. An advisory or mandatory cycle lane, preferably 1.5m wide, must be provided to enable cyclists to enter the reservoir lawfully, i.e. without crossing the first stop line. The two Stop lines must be between 4 and 5 m apart; the area between them across the full width of the approach is available for cyclists to wait at the red light. This area and the approach lane may be highlighted using coloured surfacing (see also para 16.12). The Stop lines should be 200 mm or 300 mmwide (see para 3.7) and the boundary line should be the same width as the centre line of the road (this may be omitted where it is adjacent to a kerb).
.
16.22 Where there is a significant left turn flow ofmotor vehicles, but cyclists travel straight ahead, theapproach cycle lane may be positioned centrally (seefigure 16-7). The lane will be advisory, as it can thenbe indicated using markings to diagram 1057 and1004 or 1004.1 without the need for an upright sign.
.
16.12 Cycle lanes and cycle reservoirs (seeparas16.20 to 16.22) may be surfaced in coloured material in order to demarcate them more emphatically and to discourage encroachment by motor vehicles. However, coloured surfacing has no legal significance; it is the prescribed traffic signs and road markings that establish the legal status of a cycle lane.
.

 

[glenn forger]

It's complete bullshit, in other words.

 

[TheJDog]

I rely on good observation/anticipation, making eye contact with emerging drivers where possible,

"Eye contact" is just false hope. You might believe that they have looked you right in the eyes, and seen you, but I don't believe it. They could be looking anywhere, and it might appear that they are gazing longingly into your baby blues.

My mate got stopped this morning, and the policeman told him it was illegal to cycle without a helmet. B****cks he said, and rode off.

 

[TheJDog]

Where did this occur?

not sure, somewhere in west London, though that is a pretty big area.

 

[Pale Rider]

PS Weren't you on Channel 5 the other night?

Yes.

I find my white horse useful in preventing SMIDSYs.

That, and the last person who tried it won't see his next birthday, so I think my reputation also helps keep the trail clear.

 

[Chris-H]

I disagree, setup roadside signs and stopping areas, go to peoples work places, go to schools, if people want to stop voluntarily for that safety advice about hi viz and helmets that are NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT then great.

It is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT not to speed and to drive/ride safely around more vunerable people even if they are going at a "turtles pace".

I don't want to be stopped and told I should be wearing a space yellow vest when I have perfectly legal lights, and contrasting clothes, and especially where it is the police forces and the governments failure in other areas which means they are moving to victim blaming rather than tackling the root cause, as it is easier to do this and because they are too cowardly to do anything else.
When the police are stopping the victims when they are lit up legally just because they are not wearing a stupid coloured piece of cloth because of drivers they have failed to get off the road, then yes, I am going to get annoyed, hell I am going to get rightly outraged!

Take those police officers that do not really want to be stood there in the cold and get them to black spot areas with ANPR and speed cameras, get them stood at ASL's giving out FPN's to cars and bikes, get them giving out FPN's to RLJ's on bikes and in cars.
Start clearing up the ASL problems and less cyclists will start feeling the need to "get a head start" on traffic, as they will start to feel like they have a safe zone to use where cars will see them. Personally I am in two minds about ASL's, I am not sure I want a twonk in a black BMW sat behind me revving his engine...

It was quite telling that 15 lorries were issued with FPN's and fines, and yet all they got hit with was fines totalling £2300, and this is for large heavy vehicles, transporting all sorts of cargo, which can be a danger to cars and buses, let alone pedestrians and cyclists, in a heavily used URBAN AREA.

I also look at that headline about 100 cyclists being "pulled over" and it concerns me, especially when they are handing out the sort of advice I read about which seems ignorant, incorrect and 10 years out of date. It seems the officers themselves could have done with being educated before they tried to start educating others...

I wonder how many of these 100 cyclists that were pulled over and given this "advice" had comitted any offence beyond not wearing a piece of clothing that is NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT.
I wonder how many motor vehicle drivers saw JUST the headline of 100 cyclists being pulled over and thought, deserves "em right" when those people had not comitted any offences?

I just don't get it. I really don't.

This quote is very telling as to the "quality" of advice being given out:




Sorry, Boris and others, but you are a joke if you think this is how to tackle the issue.
.

Yeah ok

 

[glasgowcyclist]

"Eye contact" is just false hope.

'Tis but one small element in my approach to urban commuting and has served me fairly well. Remember, I also have a Plan B.

GC

 

[martint235]

I disagree, setup roadside signs and stopping areas, go to peoples work places, go to schools, if people want to stop voluntarily for that safety advice about hi viz and helmets that are NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT then great.

It is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT not to speed and to drive/ride safely around more vunerable people even if they are going at a "turtles pace".

I don't want to be stopped and told I should be wearing a space yellow vest when I have perfectly legal lights, and contrasting clothes, and especially where it is the police forces and the governments failure in other areas which means they are moving to victim blaming rather than tackling the root cause, as it is easier to do this and because they are too cowardly to do anything else.
When the police are stopping the victims when they are lit up legally just because they are not wearing a stupid coloured piece of cloth because of drivers they have failed to get off the road, then yes, I am going to get annoyed, hell I am going to get rightly outraged!

Take those police officers that do not really want to be stood there in the cold and get them to black spot areas with ANPR and speed cameras, get them stood at ASL's giving out FPN's to cars and bikes, get them giving out FPN's to RLJ's on bikes and in cars.
Start clearing up the ASL problems and less cyclists will start feeling the need to "get a head start" on traffic, as they will start to feel like they have a safe zone to use where cars will see them. Personally I am in two minds about ASL's, I am not sure I want a twonk in a black BMW sat behind me revving his engine...

It was quite telling that 15 lorries were issued with FPN's and fines, and yet all they got hit with was fines totalling £2300, and this is for large heavy vehicles, transporting all sorts of cargo, which can be a danger to cars and buses, let alone pedestrians and cyclists, in a heavily used URBAN AREA.

I also look at that headline about 100 cyclists being "pulled over" and it concerns me, especially when they are handing out the sort of advice I read about which seems ignorant, incorrect and 10 years out of date. It seems the officers themselves could have done with being educated before they tried to start educating others...

I wonder how many of these 100 cyclists that were pulled over and given this "advice" had comitted any offence beyond not wearing a piece of clothing that is NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT.
I wonder how many motor vehicle drivers saw JUST the headline of 100 cyclists being pulled over and thought, deserves "em right" when those people had not comitted any offences?

I just don't get it. I really don't.

This quote is very telling as to the "quality" of advice being given out:




Sorry, Boris and others, but you are a joke if you think this is how to tackle the issue.
.

I can sort out all the ASL problems really quickly. Paint 'em black and stick a solid white line at the front. They are a waste of space, they allow cyclists who don't know better to put themselves in dodgy positions (come on, I can't be the only one to notice that an ASL is almost exactly the same size and shape as the blind spot of an HGV).. Then when we've got rid of them, let's start work on educating EVERYONE that there are rules to be followed on the road and that respect should be given to all road users.

Right I'm off to sort world peace next. Back in a bit.

 

[Twelve Spokes]

No sign of the cops on the rounderbout at 6am,bloody lightweights.

 

[Frood42]

I can sort out all the ASL problems really quickly. Paint 'em black and stick a solid white line at the front. They are a waste of space, they allow cyclists who don't know better to put themselves in dodgy positions (come on, I can't be the only one to notice that an ASL is almost exactly the same size and shape as the blind spot of an HGV).. Then when we've got rid of them, let's start work on educating EVERYONE that there are rules to be followed on the road and that respect should be given to all road users.

Right I'm off to sort world peace next. Back in a bit.

I don't disagree with you on that, I have seen a few people filter to an ASL, which they then find has a vehicle in it, so then sit ahead of the second stop line.
I prefer to sit in primary in the traffic flow unless I know that the ASL is clear and it is to my advantage to use it.

With the feeder lanes on the left they are inviting less experienced people to go up the nearside of trucks and buses (hence the invention of "cyclists stay back" signs on buses).

However there are those who are not confident enough or do not want to ride like a vehicle and so we need to find alternatives, as they have every right to use the road as well.

Good luck with sorting world peace, not sure you are off to the best start
.