How to deal with dogs? Or has this guy got issues?

[MontyVeda]

I've read the book and the bits before and after this passage and I can assure you taht it doesn't come accross as tongue in cheek. Unless it is the dogs tongue which he has just removed whilst his hand was down its throat and he is now gnawing on it in some macabre sort of victory ritual. It doesn't read like a peice of satire.

well I can't explain why you don't 'get it'... i certainly do.

 

[Cyclopathic]

I think the relevant part is "If the dog attacks"! Ballantine wasn't talking about being barked at, or having a snappy dog running alongside him.

Generally speaking, I like dogs, but if a vicious one launches a serious attack on me or my loved ones then I would use whatever means I considered necessary in defence, including the techniques listed, as I would against a human assailant. What are you going to do - ask the dog nicely to let go of your friend's face?

It isn't a pleasant passage to read, but have a think about it ... Yesterday, I was advising people to practise chain repairs at home in the warm and dry so they would know what to do if they broke a chain during a ride. The same applies to self-defence. I would rather have a good idea of what to do before being attacked by a dog, rather than trying to make it up during the stress of an attack.

I know someone who killed a German Shepherd dog in self-defence. If it comes down to a stark choice between a dog or a human then the dog has to be dealt with. I'd feel sorry for the dog, but the dog's owner would be the one at fault, not the person defending themself.

I do see your point but I don't think that the advice in the passage in any way really prepares a person to do the things described and might cause someone to suffer serious injuries if they tried something described and got it wrong, rather than just keeping it as simple as possible and fending the dog off with your bike. It's just too extreme and too reliant on a certain amount of physical confidence and competancy in an area that I doubt many of us are profficient in.

 

[Cyclopathic]

well I can't explain why you don't 'get it'... i certainly do.

To be honest I laughed a lot when I read this. It's one of the funniest things I've seen in a book fior a long while but I am sure that this was not the intention behind it. Not everything is written as a piece of post modern comedy designed for us to think ourselves terribly clever because we understand the way it subverts our expectations. Some stuff is just written as it seems to be.

 

[PpPete]

Can't find my more recent version - but I remember that passage in the original.

Don't get me wrong, I've always loved dogs and never been scared of them, but a little while ago on a group ride my daughter (then 14) was bitten by a German Shepherd from a farm we were passing (on the public road). The farmer seemed to think it was our fault for riding in a large group! My daughter was fortunate that the bite was not serious.... the dog and it's owner are even more fortunate that I was some miles behind having been attending to a mechanical. If i'd been there at the time, I would have tried to take one or other of them apart....

 

[MontyVeda]

it reminds me of a section in a survival handbook where they advise the only way to deal with a grizzly bear is by using a Magnum 45, but make sure you file off the sight on the end of the barrel, that way it doesn't hurt so much when the bear rams it up your arse. The rest of the book is in no way satirical, but that sentence is.

 

[Cyclopathic]

I don't think he's saying that if a dog barks at you or sniffs your crotch for too long you should smash the life out of it.

Take a quick look at image search results for "dog attack" and you'll feel even more sobered as to what could happen to you or others if you don't have a clue how to deal with a dog when it's seeing red.

I'm sure it sounds brutal and inhumane, but the dog is hardly thinking of puppies and warm beds when it's trying to tear the skin from your face and neck.

I am by no means condoning violence against animals, but in your flight or fight moment, a dog is likely to be able outrun you, and we're are not really cut out for defending ourselves from animal attacks, unless we have thought about how we can cope beforehand, should the worst happen.

Forewarned is forearmed as they say. It's better to know what to do, and never have to do it, than be left defenseless and vulnerable.

I have no doubt that doing a search for "dog attacks" will produce some very sobering images but these will be very far from most peoples actual experience and will concentrate on the most horrific and graphic portrayals that it has been possible to obtain. Also as I have said before the words in this passage do not do anything whatsoever to really prepare a person for being attacked and without some very clear teaching and instruction and practice are not likely to be of the slightest use to anyone. Going at a dog because you read a few sentances on how best to do it in a bike maitanence book sounds about as ill informed as that passage sounds crazy. Simply reading how to be a ninja dog exterminator doesn't make you into one.

 

[Cyclopathic]

it reminds me of a section in a survival handbook where they advise the only way to deal with a grizzly bear is by using a Magnum 45, but make sure you file off the sight on the end of the barrel, that way it doesn't hurt so much when the bear rams it up your arse. The rest of the book is in no way satirical, but that sentence is.

Nevertheless, this is not.

 

[Cyclopathic]

Can't find my more recent version - but I remember that passage in the original.

Don't get me wrong, I've always loved dogs and never been scared of them, but a little while ago on a group ride my daughter (then 14) was bitten by a German Shepherd from a farm we were passing (on the public road). The farmer seemed to think it was our fault for riding in a large group! My daughter was fortunate that the bite was not serious.... the dog and it's owner are even more fortunate that I was some miles behind having been attending to a mechanical. If i'd been there at the time, I would have tried to take one or other of them apart....

I agree. I too love dogs and I too would do absolutely anything I could to stop an attack on a friend or family member (or anyone really) My point really is about the incongruity of such a violent passage in a bike maitanence book and perhaps the more serious point that following the advice could perhaps be more dangerous than not if one is not too confident.

 

[MacB]

I agree. I too love dogs and I too would do absolutely anything I could to stop an attack on a friend or family member (or anyone really) My point really is about the incongruity of such a violent passage in a bike maitanence book and perhaps the more serious point that following the advice could perhaps be more dangerous than not if one is not too confident.

But that's no different to any self defence type advice, you use judgement.

 

[PpPete]

I'll agree the passage is somewhat incongruous in what is essentially a bike maintenance handbook (albeit now a very dated one).... nevertheless, I think his advice on dealing with a dog attack is good. Fending a dog off with your bike is only any good if the owner comes along to call it off before your arms get tired. Running will get you nowhere. If you are on your bike and have a reasonable head start you might be able to ride away quick enough. Otherwise the best course of action is to attack with 100% conviction. Having some strategies (as described in the book) is only going to re-inforce your conviction - and thereby increase the chances of the dog turning tail and running long before you do it any damage.

 

[Cyclopathic]

But that's no different to any self defence type advice, you use judgement.

Yes, I know. The potential danger as I see it is that Ballantines advice could possibly cloud a persons judgement and give them confidence that may not be entirely warranted. I stress possibly. Mostly though, as I've said, it just struck me as a wierd and rather graphic thing to find in amoungst wheel trueing and saddle positioning.
It's the incongruity that i wanted to share really rather than the merits or otherwise of the advice itself. It just so happens that I find the advice a little bit questionable.

 

[Nantmor]

Richard Ballantine is a Septic, and I have heard that some people in that country feel the need to keep a savage dog, especially in isolated rural areas, to repel intruders.
If I remember correctly, in a part of this advice not quoted above, he encourages the reader to remember that an adult human is a fairly formidable animal so that one should not be overcome by fear, but radiate aggression and give out the impression that any dog who tackles this human will regret it for the rest of its life (which may not be long). Equipping a cyclist with the knowledge of how to tackle a dog, and the self belief to do so vigorously, is a good way to help him/her give out the body language which can deter a vicious dog. Its often said that animals can sense fear, so this advice may well help one to stay unbitten without harm to the bloody dog.
I wonder if anyone, cyclist or not, has ever used Ballantine's attack stategy. I would doubt it.
I've sometimes had run-ins with dogs which chase bikes. I find going on the attack sometimes is the best tactic. I should add that so far this has only amounted to a charge with warcry.

 

[MontyVeda]

solved: just wedge a doggy chew in your back spokes*...

The dog will see you on your bike and chase you, possibly simultaneously barking.

The dog will then get a sniff of the irresistible doggy chew in your back wheel and, seeing as it's irresistible, will instinctively go for it.

The dog's face will then get churned up in your spokes and the 'attack' is over before it's even started.

*Aerodynamic spokes can be sharpened for added effect.

 

[wheres_my_beard]

Yes, I know. The potential danger as I see it is that Ballantines advice could possibly cloud a persons judgement and give them confidence that may not be entirely warranted. I stress possibly. Mostly though, as I've said, it just struck me as a wierd and rather graphic thing to find in amoungst wheel trueing and saddle positioning.
It's the incongruity that i wanted to share really rather than the merits or otherwise of the advice itself. It just so happens that I find the advice a little bit questionable.

I can't think of any other type of book that would be an appropriate place to give this information directly to cyclists.

 

[Cyclopathic]

solved: just wedge a doggy chew in your back spokes*...

The dog will see you on your bike and chase you, possibly simultaneously barking.

The dog will then get a sniff of the irresistible doggy chew in your back wheel and, seeing as it's irresistible, will instinctively go for it.

The dog's face will then get churned up in your spokes and the 'attack' is over before it's even started.

*Aerodynamic spokes can be sharpened for added effect.

I think you have solved the whole thing.