How far is too far?

[jimboalee]

Signs of 'overdoing it'.

1/ Haven't got the energy to unclip.
2/ Can't keep your head up.
3/ Fingers won't move to the gearchangers.
4/ "Why can't I feel my arse"
5/ "Why can't I feel my feet"
6/ "Should I have taken that turn back there?"

 

[ColinJ]

Signs of 'overdoing it'.

1/ Haven't got the energy to unclip.
2/ Can't keep your head up.
3/ Fingers won't move to the gearchangers.
4/ "Why can't I feel my arse"
5/ "Why can't I feel my feet"
6/ "Should I have taken that turn back there?"

7/ Fantasising about sawing all your bikes into little pieces when you get home.
8/ Spontaneous weeping.
9/ Suddenly coming to the conclusion that you are too old to ride a bike after all.
10/ Realising that you will never ride a bike again and wondering what you will do with all that free time.

 

[Kablinsky]

NHS wards everywhere are just over-run with cyclists and runners pushing themselves 'too hard'. Not a bed to be had anywhere I'd heard.

Obese, alcoholic smokers just can't get through the doors (maybe cos they are obese ) because of them...

 

[Greenbank]

as he personally knew many, many people who successfully completed rounds and died suddenly at an age you would not expect in someone so apparently fit.

Usually because of an undiagnosed heart condition. The London Marathon has a mortality rate of about one in 65,000 runners.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/london-marathon.html

Only those deaths, or collapses leading to deaths, that occur during the Marathon or within the finish area of the race, are considered Marathon deaths. Seven cardiac deaths have been reported in the London Marathon: five from severe coronary heart disease – in 1991, 1994, 1995 1997 and 2003 – and two with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM, a chronic disorder affecting the heart muscle) – in 1990 and 2001. Five successful cardiac resuscitations have taken place (in 1983, 1988, 1990, 1997 and 1998); all patients had coronary heart disease and were subsequently discharged from hospital. In the millennium race, a young man collapsed at the finish complaining of neck pain and died the following day in hospital following a diagnosis of subarachnoid (brain) haemorrhage.
The overall mortality rate from the 20 years is one in 67,414, or roughly one death for every two million miles run.

Not suprising given some enter the marathon on little or no training, often only starting 6 months before the event.



I had a ECG and checkup with a cardiologist earlier this year (thanks to the Cardiac Risk in the Young charity) and got the all clear. No abnormalities detected (although that obviously doesn't mean I'm immune to problems, I could have some condition that they can't pick up with those tests).


If you're worried about that kind of thing then see your doctor. They should be able to arrange a referral for an ECG and a consultation with a cardiologist.


Too far? I dunno. I just did a very hilly 600km ride (Bryan Chapman) Chepstow to Menai and back, on fixed, in about 40 hours with 2 fifteen minute powernaps as my only sleep. I wouldn't do it every weekend but I'll do it once or twice a year. Looking forward to LEL too (although I intend to get much more sleep than that!)

 

[yello]

I know Noodley was being deliberately flippant but there is a danger of a point being missed. That is, there are few cyclists that do the kind of mileage that I'm meaning. Sure, a commuter doing the 10km there and back journey might think 'sod this for a lark' but they're unlikely to de overdoing it. Possible but unlikely.

I have always been interested in that precise point where interest becomes obsession. It's different for all, I'm sure, but I reckon some cyclists must have crossed that divide.

 

[rafiki]

This thread is fascinating for an old codger like me. How much weight do you lose on a 450km ride in a day? How do you keep yourself hydrated and get enough calories to power your rides?

 

[ColinJ]

This thread is fascinating for an old codger like me. How much weight do you lose on a 450km ride in a day? How do you keep yourself hydrated and get enough calories to power your rides?

I've never done a ride that long, but I've done quite a few hilly 225 km rides and I lost about 1.25 pounds during each of them (after fluid losses had been made up) so I reckon I would lose about 2.0 - 2.5 pounds on a 450 km ride, depending on how hilly the route was.

I found it difficult to eat and drink enough for 225 km so double that distance would definitely be a problem for me. I could probably step up to 300 km with a bit of effort, but to do another 150 km on top of that - yikes!

 

[rafiki]

I've never done a ride that long, but I've done quite a few hilly 225 km rides and I lost about 1.25 pounds during each of them (after fluid losses had been made up) so I reckon I would lose about 2.0 - 2.5 pounds on a 450 km ride, depending on how hilly the route was.

I found it difficult to eat and drink enough for 225 km so double that distance would definitely be a problem for me. I could probably step up to 300 km with a bit of effort, but to do another 150 km on top of that - yikes!

Thanks for that. I'm surprised that your weight loss was so little especially considering you had difficulty eating enough (what would be enough?). I expected more as, on my 50-60km rided I can lose well over a kilo. But perhaps that's because I may have more body fat than you to lose? I weigh in at around 82kg.

 

[Randochap]

Most weight loss on shorter rides will be water.

Indeed, hydration and nutrition are one of the keys to marathon cycling. Training is also important. The rest is mental and, call it what you will, the determination to push through the rough spots isn't something every cyclist possesses in equal measure.

While I'm no stranger to longer brevets, our club has one of the most prolific randonneurs in "the biz." At 65, he continues to ride multiple "ultras" per season. He'll be over for LEL, but will already have ridden multiple 600s, at least one 1,000 and a 2,000km randonnee (he's riding that as I type). He averages around 30,000 km total per year.

He holds every record in the book and I'm sure they'll stand for many years, if not into perpetuity.

To my mind, this is obsession. I can't see the point.

Thing is, many of my friends and family think I'm obsessed, though I'm happy if I complete one brevet series a year and smell the roses along the way.

I would like to do LEL one of these years and very much hope to return to Paris-Brest-Paris in 2011.

 

[yello]

The rest is mental and, call it what you will, the determination to push through the rough spots isn't something every cyclist possesses in equal measure.

I'm learning this. Today's ride sheer took will power to drag myself through the 1st 100km. In all honesty, I could have packed and headed home at any number of occasions. But I didn't. (By way of explanation, I did 200 yesterday and was feeling pretty tired). I did however then make the incredibly wise - in hindsight - decision to take a break for 40 minutes and have a coffee and a pate sandwich. The difference after lunch was incredible as I joined our regular club ride. I was reborn!

But I digress...

To my mind, this is obsession. I can't see the point.

This is it getting to the heart of my musings. Some folk give over their lives (or so it seems) for cycling. I've only just realised (experienced perhaps?) the real commitment it takes. I don't think I can go there.

 

[ColinJ]

Thanks for that. I'm surprised that your weight loss was so little especially considering you had difficulty eating enough (what would be enough?). I expected more as, on my 50-60km rided I can lose well over a kilo. But perhaps that's because I may have more body fat than you to lose? I weigh in at around 82kg.

Ah, that's why I said "after fluid losses have been made up"! I'd probably come back about 4-5 pounds lighter (2.0-2.5 kilos) after a 225 km ride but most of that would be due to dehydration. Over the following 24 hours I'd put most of it back on again after rehydrating. About 1.25 pounds or just over half a kilo would be the typical fat loss. I can feel it round my waist and my trousers are noticeably looser after such a ride.

I drink about 3 or 4 750 mL bottles on an imperial century ride, plus perhaps a can of Coke and maybe a couple of sandwiches or cereal bars and a bar of chocolate or piece of fruit cake.

On 200-225 km rides I'd probably get through 5 or 6 750 mL bottles plus one or two Cokes, plus the food.

The drinks bottles contain 1/3 orange juice, 2/3 water with a small pinch of salt, a squeeze of lemon and 3 scoops of maltodextrin powder.

Sometimes I carry a gel or two for a boost late in longer rides.

 

[Fiona N]

This thread is fascinating for an old codger like me. How much weight do you lose on a 450km ride in a day? How do you keep yourself hydrated and get enough calories to power your rides?

I think you're maybe missing the point with this - if you do ultra-distances, either on foot or by bike, you've trained your body to become majorly efficient at fat-burning so fueling is not as for a short (>2 hour) intense effort. Plus, for ultra-distances, you're not going to be working at 95% HRmax. I used to find that I needed barely 150kcals per hour over 24 hours, assuming that I was well-rested and glycogen stores were topped up - and I took in plenty of fluids, of course. Testing at AIS had shown that my body was very good at burning fat and I only needed to supply about 20% of the calories per hour in the form of easily accessible stores, either ingested sugars or glycogen, for a 24 hour TT. I used to do around 700km per 24 hours. Eating more than necessary during an event is a waste of effort (diverts blood supply from muscles to stomach) but nothing is wasted if it's in the recovery period (for long events, that is). So I tend, for multi-day events, to concentrate on recovery input.

The thing is I'm not sure how much my well-adapted physiology is genetic and how much is that I started hiking (with camping gear) before I was a teenager and by 16 did the Lyke Wake Walk Double (there and back - 80 miles - without an overnight break), so the aerobic conditioning and endurance have been developed over my whole life, not just from when I got into my 30's and decided I wanted to run the London Marathon.

Undoubtedly there are some people who can pick up ultra-events in middle-age or later, but I suspect they are pretty rare, genetically special creatures.

 

[Greenbank]

I'd be wary of thoughts of mega fat loss on long rides. I reckon, based on my experience, that I ride at a pace that uses up about 250kcal an hour on an average hilly-ish Audax.

So for a 600km ride with 30 hours riding time that's about 7500kcal. My average HR was about 60% during the ride.

1 lb of fat is 3500kcal. So if I managed to do an entire 600km ride without eating anything I'd lose, at the most, 2lbs of fat. I easily ate at least 5000kcal extra (over a normal day) during the ride, plus extra before and after (over my normal intake). So fat loss, for me, can't be more than a pound looking at just those figures.

However, you've also got to take into account that during recovery the body needs extra energy to replace and repair the muscles that have been damaged during the ride itself. This is an ongoing process for days (if not weeks) after the ride.

Also, the old mantra says "fat burns in a carbohydrate fire". You need carbs/sugars intake in order to burn the fat effectively. My fat metabolism is pretty well trained. I did the first 180km of this ride on a single round of beans on toast and a can of coke at 90km; no breakfast either.

I tend to see weight loss a couple of weeks after an Audax. The following post (on another forum, but it's easier than reformatting it for here) shows the raw data:-

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15.msg338782#msg338782

Interestingly I was 80kg on today's weigh in. 2kg up from last week despite doing a long ride at the weekend. Next week I'd expect it to be back down to 78kg-ish and below that the week after...

While I'm no stranger to longer brevets, our club has one of the most prolific randonneurs in "the biz." At 65, he continues to ride multiple "ultras" per season. He'll be over for LEL, but will already have ridden multiple 600s, at least one 1,000 and a 2,000km randonnee (he's riding that as I type). He averages around 30,000 km total per year.

He can talk to the UK resident nutter. The other year he managed 40,000km of validated Audaxes alone. He's a spritely thirtysomething though.

 

[jimboalee]

This thread is fascinating for an old codger like me. How much weight do you lose on a 450km ride in a day? How do you keep yourself hydrated and get enough calories to power your rides?

None.

By the time you're ready to ride a 400km Rando, you should have your nutrition sussed.
You will prep for days on a 'Carbo loading' regime, and then stuff your face during the ride.

100km rides can be used as 'fat burners'. As long as you drink enough water to keep your urine clear, you're OK to lose some excess fat.
Maybe a 500 kCal cake at half distance ( from a 3000 kCal excursion ) and you could lose over half a pound.

 

[jimboalee]

Another factor worth consideration is energy loss due to meteorlogical conditions - the weather.
RandoChap's website gives advice on clothing.

Conservation of heat energy inside the body ( under clothing ) reduces the amount of total fuel needed.
The fuel for mechanical propulsion will always be the same ( forward motion against wind and hill ).
Windchill can be calorifically expensive. Without leggings, the kCals per mile could double on a winter's morning.