Hills – drive up them hard, or spin until you are fitter?

[jimboalee]

Yes you can get up a 25% hill at a slower speed without having a 7W/kg power to weight ratio. You will need a 28T ring and a 36T sprocket to keep up a high enough cadence – about 40 – to keep momentum to climb at 2.5 mph.

Road race pros ( and most amateur sportive types ) don't pack a 21" gear for the occasional 25% gradient.
Unfortunately for the pros on the tour, some switchbacks in the mountains have 25% grades on the corners, and to get up them without stopping dead, they resort to their 7W/kg ability on a 46" gear.

Stopping dead half way up L'Alpe means losing the stage, and worse, losing valuable time because getting going again on a 7% grade is pretty hard.
If you ARE going to do this, you can't afford it to be broadcast on international television and "What happened next" on Friday night when Cav is on QOS. Especially if you ARE Cav…

 

[MacB]

I'm not having a pop at your social life or, indeed, the way you approach cycling but the implication that for you cycling IS fun while the rest of us, know-nothings, who just get on the bike and ride, it I'SNT

Rich, that isn't the way I read Jim, my take is he offers a spread of advice based on your needs. He could just say do this, eat that, ride this bike and we'd all be saying prove it, or back it up. He actually gives some detailed backup, it's up to us how much or little we take on board. As a newbie I found his advice useful and liked the fact that he always promotes that cycling should be fun.

There is some subtle mockery in his posts, especially when he gives power formula and gear selection advice. But I think that's intended to get people to have a little look at themselves when they're maybe losing sight of the fun and getting a bit serious. Sort of, if you want to do it then do it right, type response. Faced with this we can then choose to get right into it or just cherry pick the relevant bits suitable to our abilities/desires.

Though Rich, you and I could both be totally wrong in our take on Jim and he could actually be the drooling maniac that he comes across as

 

[jimboalee]

Thanks McB.

I spent my teenage years learning everything I could off the Bike shop people near where I lived. My LBS was Tom Crowther's, who was one of the co-founders of Mercian Cycles. Some of the more valuable stuff was a bit incredible and difficult to take in without some proof. Nevertheless, the info was taken in and remembered and now proved it WAS worth remembering.

I remember David Duffield dropped a couple of gems on Eurosport in the late nineties; and Sean Kelly promptly stopped responding to force Duffers to shut up.

Every year viewers e-mail asking about gearing and physical strength, and every year there is no clear answer. The only explanation is "Hard training".

That £3000 Trek you are riding was designed using CAD and CAE, and has been in a wind tunnel to hone the tube shaping and componentry streamlining. It was tested by pros on a dynamometer to evaluate the efficiency of the drivetrain, as well as motoring rigs. There are probably more tests I am not aware of - it has been ten years since I co-operated with MIRA on bike design, albeit an electric bike.

You don't have to believe anything I say on here, but be assured, I won't bullshit anyone ( except maybe the story about Alien abduction ).

Oh, if you want to see 'drooling maniacs' wait for the photos from this years Etape.

 

[jimboalee]

Nuns, no sense of humour.

A convent takes in an evacuee girl from the city. She is with them for two weeks and in that time, cuts all the hair off the convent's cat and mutilates the leg of the groundsman's prize rooster.

In a letter to the girl's parents, the Mother Superior writes "She's shaved my pussy and chopped a foot off the gardener's cock".

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

I Like Jimboalee's Posts

Can I just weigh in on Jimbo's side as well? I kind of half understand (or think I do) the physics / maths behind what he's saying, but don't worry too much about the intricacies of it all. I just find his posts interesting, informative and fun .. in a weird kind of way.

 

[rich p]

I don't want to take this further but as I pointed out I don't have a problem with Jim's approach - in fact good luck to him. My point was that he implies that without adopting his scientific smoke and mirrors one can't enjoy cycling. That's my last word as my intention wasn't really to be controversial or personal.

 

[SimonRoberts0204]

So what sort of actual speed will a pro climb say, 200m of 25%?

 

[jimboalee]

So what sort of actual speed will a pro climb say, 200m of 25%?

Work it out.

39 x 23. 50 cadence. 6.5 mph On 39 x 25 it would be higher cadence and probably slightly faster due to this.
[Power is a function of available torque and crankshaft speed. I will refrain from quoting the formula]

In reality, the only place I know where that demand was made was up Constitution Hill in Swansea on the Tour of Britain ( or was it the Milk race ? ).
Would you be surprised to hear some of GB's best riders got off and ran with their bikes? After ONLY 100m covered

No-one criticised. Phil Liggett said "I don't blame them".

On more sensible roadraces, 25% inclines last only a few meters between 7, 8 or 9% slopes. Or over the occassional canal bridge in Holland where they have to concentrate on keeping the front wheel straight when landing.

For us, a good plan to cope with this kind of thing is to find a multi-storey car park and ride up and down it for a couple of hours.

Many an unofficial 'race' was held in Solihull's Mell Square Multi-storey.
It was customary to release the contents of your stomach off the roof.

 

[TW85]

I always ride in the hardest gear possible to be still moving in, it hurts sometimes but it's the best way to increase your legs' capabilities in my opinion.

GO FOR THE BURN

 

[jimboalee]

I always ride in the hardest gear possible to be still moving in, it hurts sometimes but it's the best way to increase your legs' capabilities in my opinion.

GO FOR THE BURN

The trouble with this approach is you have to be very proficient at getting your foot from pedal to ground and holding yourself upright on a steep gradient.

 

[MacB]

The trouble with this approach is you have to be very proficient at getting your foot from pedal to ground and holding yourself upright on a steep gradient.

alternatively you can just keel over

 

[yello]

I always ride in the hardest gear possible to be still moving in

I hope your knees can handle that!

 

[jimboalee]

I hope your knees can handle that!

You'll be surprised how much your knees can handle.

Riding a bicycle up a 15% hill is equivalent to carrying a 25lb backpack up a flight of stairs.
If you get the gear sorted to give you the appropriate cadence, it's possible.

Climbing the stairs is at a 45% incline, but the strain of pedalling the bike is multiplied by pi ( 3 1/7 ) so a 15% slope feels like a 45% stairway.

Am I correct? Discuss...

 

[jimboalee]

Or is it in relation to the angle of the slope?

15% is 27 Degrees, so the equivalent would be 85 degrees, ie a wall ladder.

Is that correct?

Friday. My brain hurts.

 

[peanut]

Friday. My brain hurts.

your brain hurts Jimbo how do you think ours are ? this is all way over my head.

Ok I'll fall for it . I used to be able to climb a 20% hill (Red hill) 95 mts high on a 38x 23t and I weighed 210 lbs the bike weighed 19lbs
Q... what output was I expending then and what output would I need to expend now weighing 234lbs and what ratio 38x?
I'm going to go take a valium but I'll be back in a mo