Helvellyn deaths

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Profpointy

Legendary Member
there's an account in one of Martin Moran's books about an ultra fit fell runner type joining him on a trip on full winter conditions whilsf wearing trainers. Moran expects him to turn back on the steeper ground. A little later the party stops to don crampons and the trainers chap duly straps crampons to his trainers. As Moran notes "this is not a recoomendation to try it"" but does illustrate what can be done. And the guy doing this was a super fit, and highly experienced mountainer
 

classic33

Leg End Member
Suggest you wind your neck in, C33. The article makes no mention of what the victim was wearing, as far as I can see.
But thanks for the helpful advice. I don't know how I've survived 30 years up mountains without it.:rolleyes:
Neither did I.
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
in the interests of balance I (too) have see ill equiped and more importantly ill-prepared folk on the hills in doubtfull weather - some lads slippy sliding around i snow in soft "fashion" boots - this was the Glyders in winter and looked bloody dodgy to be honest. But on a reasonable day on Helvelin striding edge /swirral edge - you can probably get away with shorts and even sandals (I'd be wearing boots.or at least shoes myself) - if you get a move on and are sufficiently confident in your footing. You'd be up and down in a couple of hours - in winter conditions you'd want an ice axe, but would't take o e on the off chance even if it can snow on any day of the year at 3000'
 

Drago

Legendary Member
In some parts of the US the state sends people the bill for the Search and Rescue ops if they require locating and extracting because of negligent behaviour on their part. Seems to cut down somewhat on fools trying to cross the wilderness in flip flops and shorts.
 
In some parts of the US the state sends people the bill for the Search and Rescue ops if they require locating and extracting because of negligent behaviour on their part. Seems to cut down somewhat on fools trying to cross the wilderness in flip flops and shorts.
I used to live in New Zealand and this was a big problem there - the American walkers would refuse to call for help until things got very serious because they were afraid they'd have to pay, when it would have been safer for everyone if they'd asked for help sooner.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Its a tricky call is charging. Can work badly in either direction.

I'm on 2 x SAR teams. I'm Search Manager for one, and an associate member for another (I spend a lot of time on their patch so make myself their callouts too) and fortunately we don't get too many of the ill prepared, though if we have a hard winter that may pick up. Lately it's been dementia sufferers wandering off or despondent folk disappearing giving concern for their safety.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
OK, I'm not even going to try and decipher that.
Welcome to the Ignore list.
That'll cut down the amount of 'New Posts' you'll see, by 33%, Doc:whistle:
 

SpokeyDokey

68, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
So again, there is another unfortunate incident of a climber falling to their death, again on Helvellyn. Why is this?

I have been up there once, 7-8 years ago, it was a clear day and I did the popular route overs striding edge, down Swirral.
As I can recall, going down Swirral is tricky, Striding itself was not too bad as it can be tackled from walking on the top or if that is too screamish along the side.
Can it be the walkers are inexperienced as they go to the lakes once every few years, or unavoidable due to triping over small stone at the wrong point...

Either way, its is unfortunate and quite an occurrence it seems.

@itchybeard

Re "...quite an occurrence."

Yes people do slip and get hurt/die off of Swirral/Striding Edges but in relation to the traffic both routes take the incidents per trip would be a very low statistic. Unlike the equally/similarly heavily trafficked peaks such as Scafell Pike/Skiddaw/all the popular horse-shoes etc these two approach/descent routes can really punish a slight stumble. Nature of the beast I'm afraid.

In reality these are easy routes for the experienced that are properly equipped for the conditions on the day. There is nothing particularly sinister about the mountain.

As already discussed the unfortunate guy had a heart attack - as in all sports/pastimes involving strenuous exercise this will happen. So not sure what relevance your post is to the incident.

My climbing/hiking buddy & I were out on Helvellyn yesterday and used Swirral as a descent route - having trekked out to The Dodds from Glenridding we decided as we were feeling lively to head back to Helvellyn and down by one of our favourite routes.

Everyone we saw seemed well equipped and no one was in a tizz - this is not always the case however. We frequent this mountain around half a dozen times a year and do indeed see people who are under (& over) equipped and who are often completely out of their depth - we have helped a few out over the years too. There's not really a lot you can do about this - the appropriate authorities and climbing/hiking fraternity give out heaps of information re safety in the hills. But how can we legislate for people that ignore it?

Re clothing. I see thats stirred up a bit of a debate although not really relevant to the poor guys demise. Clothing is a deeply personal. Experienced mountain users will have honed their clothing choices and what gear they take over the years through trial, error and the occasional mistake. It does amuse me when I hear people who do not, or rarely, use the mountains casting judgement on those that do. Gear choice will be based on a variety of factors - expected weather conditions, potential fall back options, speed that a person can move across widely differing ground conditions and individual physiology etc. IME some of the most dangerously clad hill go-ers are those that are over-dressed and sweating buckets whilst struggling with an all too heavy rucksack. Quite often these are inexperienced people who have casually read-up on the subject, or taken poor advice, and subsequently fuelled the sales of Goretex Wonderland of Ambleside/Keswick etc by purchasing kit they don't need or that is over-specified for the route in hand.

At the end of the day it is sad that a fellow hill go-er has died. Without demeaning his death in any way there is a certain romanticism in 'going' whilst doing something that you enjoy. Maybe his family will find some small comfort in that in the years ahead.
 
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I was walking on Snowden some years ago. Two young ladies came by me wearing flip flops shorts and tee shirts carrying a Harrods bag..Some incedents you can't legislate for which was more likely the case in this incedent.
In the case of the two young ladies I was tempted to congratulate them on there long walk from London.
Britains mountains my look benign but in adverse weather conditions are as dangerous as any in the world .


We once had a "conversation" with the train staff at the Snowdon summit

We had walked up, to find the Cafe was the venue for a large Company sponsoreddwalk

They had a dozen scantily clad young models providing hospitality

Apparently they had "overstayed" and their return ticket was invalid so they would have to walk down

A few hundred people persuaded them that this was unsafe and not going to happen
 

Profpointy

Legendary Member
There's quite a good account in the (excellent) book Beneath the Mountains (primarily about caving expeditions in spain) - where the protagonist sees a sign in the Yorkshire Dales describing what a well-equipped hill-walker should carry / wear - anorak, woolly hat, blah blah - it was a foul day and the writer asks himself what the hell am I doing in a wetsuit and willies?

I remember a similar experience on Leck Fell in a bitterly cold hard frost. Wetsuits weren't that good in those far off days, and some of the party had stuffed tea towels and the like into the gaping holes in them, and to make makeshift scarves and such.

.... shoe box in't middle o road and tell young people today etc. etc.
 
I've been up Ben Nevis in swimming trunks and Derry boots ( I had arrived by motorbike in case you thought, that's weird).
 
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