Helmets why doesn't everyone wear them?

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Recycle

Über Member
Location
Caterham
that that there is clear evidence of risk compensation by other roads users when cyclists wear helmets.

John Adams presents a plausible case that risk compensation plays a part in drivers who wear seatbelts, and in a way that should cause concern to cyclists. Drivers believe that seatbelts protected against injury and therefore take more risks place vulnerable road users like cyclists and pedestrians at greater risk. Seatbelts provide protection for those wearing them but they do nothing for whoever the driver crashes into.

Just for the record, I don't have any objection to wearing a seatbelt. I am neutral on the issue but I am sceptical on the over reliance of technology over good driving practice to prevent casualties. Too often human nature counterbalances the safety benefits that technology provides.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
I would be very interested to know how you quantify that statement? In force area 78% if damage or injury incidents reported to us are the fault if the cyclist.

Along with one other person I'm my forces 'expert' in serious incidents involving cyclists, and there's no grace and favour either way. It's a question of evidence gathering and the CPS make the prosecution decision. In very minor cases the Police can authorise prosecution, but only strictly in accordance with the decision matrix authorised by the CPS (it's actually a criminal offence for the charging officer to step outside this guidance, so even if a decision seems grossly unfair what's the officer supposed to do?). I can't speak for othe Forces, but cyclists coming a cropper in our area don't get treated any differently to other road users.

But hey, things are going to get a whole lot worse with the PCC's. they'll be setting priorities after consultation with the communities, and you can bet your bottom dollar the word 'bicycle' won't feature in the average Joes priorities.

All the above I'd an irrelevance anyway. Research has clearly shown no link at all between police visibility and activity, and the likelihood of people commutting offences, so the police could do anything they want in this regard and it won't influence other road users to behave themselves.

I'm not at all comfortable with blaming another sector of society for my ills and expecting a notional 'they' to sort it out. What can we do as a group to help ourselves?
 

Recycle

Über Member
Location
Caterham
I'm not at all comfortable with blaming another sector of society for my ills and expecting a notional 'they' to sort it out. What can we do as a group to help ourselves?
I completely agree with you but what happens when that is not enough. I bet I'm not the best cyclist in the world but I do my best to practice what John Franklin preaches. I still think my safety is disproportionately compromised by motorists taking risks on my behalf.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
And despite the appalling figure in the police area of Westshire I don't entirely blame the cyclists. Cycling infrastructure is all but non existant, and that which is there has clearly had no input from anyone with any cycling expertise. The 20" wide cycle lane on a busy road is my favourite.

Compound this with cyclists not being required to have any training and licensing and the cards are stacked against them.

Since all the speed camera were switched off road deaths in Westshire have rocketed (and I'm not saying the absence of cameras is the cause). By April this year we'd missed last years total, on course to almost triple it. The road safety partnership means nothing when the other partners are switching off street lighting, cancelling road improvement programnes due to finding issues.

So, while you continue to blame everyone else, advise me to look at other Forces data, and generally avoid taking any responsibility at all for your own safety, I ask yet again what you think cyclists ourselves should be doing to improve our lot, be it by our own individual actions on the road, or group actions such as campaigning, etc?

You seem to have a high opinion about how it's everyone's fault but yours, from useless helmets to other motorists being to blame, but its our very own actions that either place us in harms way or otherwise.

A quick tale. a few years back I was first on the scene at a job. Busy road junction, cyclist knocked off and ran over. He's got a bone sticking out his thigh, and all he can say for himself was "it was my right of way". It nay well have been, but to blithely think such a convention makes him immortal is clearly daft. Technically the motorists fault, but I would have avoided it by not riding up the inside of a queue at the lights and sitting next to the first vehicle in the queue that was, as CCTV later showed, indicating to turn left.

Blaming the police, or more correctly the Road Safety Partnership, won't get you very far with that one. A boring tale, but it serves to illustrate that there is plenty that each individual rider can do to protect theselves, and just because something is 'right' it isn't necessarily right at all.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
I'm a born again cyclist who never as a boy going everywhere on my bike or when I used to commute in the mid 80's ever wore a helmet. However when I started to ride again I was instructed by SWMBO to get one, I have & now ride with it on. The engineer inside me says it's not really going to help, but after seeing Mark Cavendish split his helmet on a fall in the Tour de France this year I now wonder what would have happened if he wasn't wearing it? Is it case of the helmet is poorly built & they are just paying lip service to the fact they have to wear one, or did it actually do it's job & saved him from concussion/nasty head injury.

I think you have to do what you feel is right for you & not get pressured either way, if you feel better wearing one, wear one, even if your peers laugh & point their fingers at you. BUT I would not like to see it compulsory & legal requirement.

Alan...
 

Licramite

Über Member
Location
wiltshire
I think anyone cycling and not wearing a helmet is being selfish and irresponsible. - I agree entirely its upto them to decide to not wear one (actualy I don,t I think it should be a legal requirement along with high vis jacket&refelectores) , but who will look after them with brain damage, - who will support them, pay disability payments ect. - we will .
I personnally don,t care if you splat your head, but unless you die , some one else has to sort out your mess.

so wearing a helmet isn,t for your protection , its for everyones elses, who are going to have to sort out and support you after your own stupidity.

After all - do you remove the airbags and brakes from your car? no , but arn,t they safety devices? why should you be forced to have them?

but on the othr hand, a mate of my brother who handglides died because apparantly he had the wrong type of helmet on when he hit the side of a mountain. - so - Helmet,flak jacket, armoured underwear when your time is up , - your time is up.
 

Peter Armstrong

Über Member
I wear a helmet because my mummy tells me too.
 

mcshroom

Bionic Subsonic
I'm a born again cyclist who never as a boy going everywhere on my bike or when I used to commute in the mid 80's ever wore a helmet. However when I started to ride again I was instructed by SWMBO to get one, I have & now ride with it on. The engineer inside me says it's not really going to help, but after seeing Mark Cavendish split his helmet on a fall in the Tour de France this year I now wonder what would have happened if he wasn't wearing it? Is it case of the helmet is poorly built & they are just paying lip service to the fact they have to wear one, or did it actually do it's job & saved him from concussion/nasty head injury.

I think you have to do what you feel is right for you & not get pressured either way, if you feel better wearing one, wear one, even if your peers laugh & point their fingers at you. BUT I would not like to see it compulsory & legal requirement.

Alan...

With respect to the Cavendish incident. From one engineer to another, think about the operational mechanism of the helmet in slowly compressing and lengthening the period of impact (dissipating the energy over a longer period of time). THen consider what happens when you cause a fault line in the material (crack) to open up. This will present as a path of lower resistence than the shell around it so allow the protective compression of the helmet shell to be bypassed. A cracked helmet, just like a cracked wall or support strut is evidence of failure, not of effectiveness.

Wearing a helmet to safe you from being murdered by SWMBO on the other hand makes perfect sense :smile:
 

Peter Armstrong

Über Member
With respect to the Cavendish incident. From one engineer to another, think about the operational mechanism of the helmet in slowly compressing and lengthening the period of impact (dissipating the energy over a longer period of time). THen consider what happens when you cause a fault line in the material (crack) to open up. This will present as a path of lower resistence than the shell around it so allow the protective compression of the helmet shell to be bypassed. A cracked helmet, just like a cracked wall or support strut is evidence of failure, not of effectiveness.

Wearing a helmet to safe you from being murdered by SWMBO on the other hand makes perfect sense :smile:

Ha Ha what aload of rubish, the helmet brakes instead of your head, simple.
 

mcshroom

Bionic Subsonic
I think anyone cycling and not wearing a helmet is being selfish and irresponsible. - I agree entirely its upto them to decide to not wear one (actualy I don,t I think it should be a legal requirement along with high vis jacket&refelectores) , but who will look after them with brain damage, - who will support them, pay disability payments ect. - we will .
I personnally don,t care if you splat your head, but unless you die , some one else has to sort out your mess.

so wearing a helmet isn,t for your protection , its for everyones elses, who are going to have to sort out and support you after your own stupidity.

After all - do you remove the airbags and brakes from your car? no , but arn,t they safety devices? why should you be forced to have them?

but on the othr hand, a mate of my brother who handglides died because apparantly he had the wrong type of helmet on when he hit the side of a mountain. - so - Helmet,flak jacket, armoured underwear when your time is up , - your time is up.

and they wonder why the anti-compulsionists get wound up every now and then :rolleyes:

In response, I'll point to to Roger Geffen: -

It is well established that, if you weigh up the life-years gained through cycling (due to increased physical activity) versus the life years lost (due to injury), the health benefits of cycling far outweigh the risks involved. One widely quoted figure for the UK, acknowledged by Government, puts the benefit:disbenefit ratio for the UK at 20:1. Other ratios for other countries are higher still. (N.B. some of the academic references reduce the ratio by including the negative effects of pollution - however that's obviously irrelevant to the helmet debate. If you remove the pollution effect, the other references all come out with ratios above 20:1). But let's take 20:1 for the sake of argument.

From this, recent research shows that, if you tell people to wear helmets (whether by law or simply through promotion campaigns) and this reduces cycle use by more than 1 unit of cycling (e.g. one cyclist, or one km cycled) for every 20 who continue, this is absolutely guaranteed to shorten more lives than helmets could possibly save - even if they were 100% effective at preventing ALL cycling injuries (i.e. leg, arm, shoulder injuries as well as head injuries) for the remaining cyclists. That maximum threshold, beyond which you would be doing more harm than good, then drops further still - down to c2% - once you take account of the proportion of cycling injuries which are non-head injuries. And this is still assuming that helmets are 100% effective at preventing head injuries.

In fact, the evidence on the effectiveness of helmets has become increasingly sceptical over time. A recent literature review by Rune Elvik, an internationally recognised authority on road safety, found that the estimates of helmet effectiveness have progressively decreased over time, with the most recent studies showing no net benefit. In this same report he documents evidence that helmets increase the risk of neck injuries. In a separate report, Elvik has also found that helmet-wearers suffer 14% more injuries per mile travelled than non-wearers. The reasons for this are unclear, however there is good evidence that (at least some) cyclists ride less cautiously when wearing helmets, and that drivers leave less space when overtaking cyclists with helmets than those without.

The only clearly documented effect of enforced helmet laws (e.g. in Australia, New Zealand or parts of Canada) is to substantially reduce cycle use, typically by about a third. Reductions in cyclists' head injury have been similar to the reductions in cycle use, suggesting no reduction in risk for the remaining cyclists, and in some cases this appears to have worsened. In addition to the possible explanations in the para above, this may also be becuase reductions in cycle use undermine the "safety in numbers" effect for the cyclists who remain - see see www.ctc.org.uk/safetyinnumbers. A clear relationship has been shown between cycle use and cycle safety - cycling is safer in places where cycle use is high (e.g. the Netherlands or Denmark - or within Britain, in Cambridge or York). Telling people to wear helmets, instead of creating safe cycling conditions, is contrary to the aims of encouraging more, as well as safer, cycling.

From this, I hope it is clear that the effectiveness or otherwise of helmets is not the main point. As explained above, even if helmets were 100% effective, you would still be doing more harm than good if you deter more than c2% of cycle use by telling people to wear them. That's because the risks of cycling are not especially high, and the health benefits are SO much greater. You are about as unlikely to be killed in a mile of cycling as a mile of walking - do we also need walking helmets? - no, of course not! The idea that you need helmets to cycle is both a symptom of our massively exaggerated concern about the "dangers" of cycling, which results in such pitifully low cycle use in Britain.

In short, if we want to maximise the health, environmental and other benefits of cycling, we need to focus on creating safe conditions, and thus increasing cycle use. Resorting to helmets simply tackles the symptoms of the problem, not the causes, and thus deters people from cycling. This is pretty much guaranteed to shorten more lives than it could possibly save. Faced with both an obesity crisis and a climate crisis, the last thing we should be doing is driving people into increasingly car-dependent, obesogenic lifestyles.

To John Halstead: I am very happy to communicate with you or anyone else on the helmet issue. As for evidence, the references supporting every claim in the text above can be found in CTC's review of the evidence: http://beta.ctc.org.uk/files/cycle-helmets-evidencebrf_1.pdf. There is also a (shorter) CTC policy statement on the subject here: http://beta.ctc.org.uk/file/public/cycle-helmetsbrf_0.pdf

I hope that this persuades you that it is more important to encourage people to cycle, than to worry about whether or not they wear helmets when doing so!

Best wishes

Roger Geffen
Campaigns & Policy Director, CTC
 

4F

Active member of Helmets Are Sh*t Lobby
Location
Suffolk.
I think anyone cycling and not wearing a helmet is being selfish and irresponsible. - I agree entirely its upto them to decide to not wear one (actualy I don,t I think it should be a legal requirement along with high vis jacket&refelectores) , but who will look after them with brain damage, - who will support them, pay disability payments ect. - we will .
I personnally don,t care if you splat your head, but unless you die , some one else has to sort out your mess.

so wearing a helmet isn,t for your protection , its for everyones elses, who are going to have to sort out and support you after your own stupidity.

After all - do you remove the airbags and brakes from your car? no , but arn,t they safety devices? why should you be forced to have them?

but on the othr hand, a mate of my brother who handglides died because apparantly he had the wrong type of helmet on when he hit the side of a mountain. - so - Helmet,flak jacket, armoured underwear when your time is up , - your time is up.

I think you should question your own stupidity before you add anything further to this thread.
 
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