Helmet saved my life yesterday

[ianrauk]

What "anti helmet persuasion'? I don't think anyone is necessarily anti-helmet - they're anti-compulsion...

I'm Anti Helmet......

 

[hoopdriver]

I am anti compulsion, very much so, but I am anti compulsion on libertarian grounds and do not feel any need to buttress my arguments with ludicrous faux science or absurdist interpretations or a complete dismissal of every event and accident as anecdote and valueless. That is just silly. Anyone who doesn't want to wear a helmet is welcome to as far as I am concerned. I couldn't care if anyone does or not. I would just prefer it if people would man up and say they've assessed the risks and chose not to wear a helmet, instead of creating a lot of la-la rationalsations ad denial of risk.

 

[hoopdriver]

Some of us are way ahead of you there and have done both to be sure.

I don't get you...

 

[hoopdriver]

But to be more serious, the libertarian argument might not always work, so the helmets don't actually do what they say on the tin argument is also useful.

Well, since in my experience they do work, and work well, I will stick with the higher, purer libertarian argument rather than make up these absurd rationalizations.

 

[Gary E]

I (emphasis on the word "I" ) see the problem like this:

There are those among our ranks that think helmets are a good thing and so choose to wear one - these people have made the choice for themselves and are wise

There are also those among our ranks that believe helmets to be un-necessary and choose not to wear one - these people have made the choice for themselves and are also wise

Finally there is a faction among us that for some reason wish to make the choice on behalf of others - these people are interfering busy bodies

With the possible exception of parents/carers making the choice for their children, I believe that everyone is entitled to make the choice for themselves. People who preach their beliefs as gospel I (personally) find extremely condescending.

This is, and should be, a persons own choice in just the same way that I may choose to wear red socks or blue ones. Arguing that my choice to wear/not wear a helmet is right/wrong seems about as relevant as telling me I'm wearing the wrong colour socks!

 

[Dan_h]

A recumbent trike would have also prevented this accident?

Yes, thinking about it a recumbent trike would have pretty much prevented most of my embarrassing (and sometimes painful) incidents...

 

[jonny jeez]

Unfortunately you don't get it (but thank you for the nice comments anyway ) . If in a general cycling population sample of 1,000 cyclists, 333 wear a helmet and 667 don't and then you find in hospital 333 of a thousand head injuries were wearing a helmet and 667 weren't then the conclusion is the risk of a head injury is the same with or without a helmet. All you are doing is quoting absolute numbers on which basis you would conclude that driving a Trabant (no-one killed) was far safer than driving a Ford or Vauxhall (thousands killed). But don't worry, quite a few research papers that claim benefits for helmets have made the same mistake and forgotten to compare injury rates with and without helmets with helmet wearing rates in the cycling population.

I think maybe you're the one not getting it. They aren't the numbers you quoted, so don't pat me on the head and say "there there, lots of people are thick too".

You didn't say in a sample of 1000 cyclists...blah blah. You said, in in a sample of 1000 head injuries sustained from a fall.... That's a totally different equation.

Sounds a bit like your trying to squirm out of the fact that you told us all that of 1000 head injury's, 600 were helmet less and 300 were with a helmet.

your numbers not mine.

 

[hoopdriver]

Some of us are up with both the libertarian argument and that which you dismiss as la la rationalisation, or what we prefer to think of as thinking.

I know you like to think of it as thinking

 

[Gary E]

This is Nonsence. Nothing should be red or blue, it shouldbe red and blue.

Obviously, that was I thinking?
Actually, if you want to get technical, I coordinate my socks with my Lycra which in turn is dependant on which bike I'm riding

 

[hoopdriver]

That's right put me down and belittle me for my stupidity. That will always help.

And your previous comment? What was that?

I am just better at put downs, that's all.

 

[mcshroom]

I think maybe you're the one not getting it. They aren't the numbers you quoted, so don't pat me on the head and say "there there, lots of people are thick too".

You didn't say in a sample of 1000 cyclists...blah blah. You said, in in a sample of 1000 head injuries sustained from a fall.... That's a totally different equation.

Sounds a bit like your trying to squirm out of the fact that you told us all that of 1000 head injury's, 600 were helmet less and 300 were with a helmet.

your numbers not mine.

and what percentage of cyclists wear helmets?

If it's less than 1/3 then those numbers would show that helmets actually make head injuries more likely. This is the context you continually fail to grasp.

Evidence in Australia showed that as helmet wearing was made compulsory, head injuries dropped - great you say. It also showed that the number of cyclists dropped by the same % as the number of head injuries - so no overall effect.

The initial state of the sample size has to be considered before any absolute stats can be analysed.

 

[jonny jeez]

I (emphasis on the word "I" ) see the problem like this:

There are those among our ranks that think helmets are a good thing and so choose to wear one - these people have made the choice for themselves and are wise

There are also those among our ranks that believe helmets to be un-necessary and choose not to wear one - these people have made the choice for themselves and are also wise

Finally there is a faction among us that for some reason wish to make the choice on behalf of others - these people are interfering busy bodies

With the possible exception of parents/carers making the choice for their children, I believe that everyone is entitled to make the choice for themselves. People who preach their beliefs as gospel I (personally) find extremely condescending.

This is, and should be, a persons own choice in just the same way that I may choose to wear red socks or blue ones. Arguing that my choice to wear/not wear a helmet is right/wrong seems about as relevant as telling me I'm wearing the wrong colour socks!

I think that just about sums it up @Gary E.

well said.

 

[jonny jeez]

That's right put me down and belittle me for my stupidity. That will always help.

isn't that what you were doing up page a little.

 

[Gary E]

Actually comparing this to religion (Helmet Evangelists etc) seems about right, it's about as relevant

Why am I thinking "Life of Bryan"?

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
How shall we **** off oh lord?
Wolf nipple chips, they're lovely, get 'em while they're hot.

 

[Thomk]

Hello, I am the OP Just popped my head over the parapet to say how sorry I am for kicking this off. My rather naive intention for presenting the story of my accident in such a childish way was to poke gentle fun at those people who have said in the past the very thing manifest in the title of this thread. It wasn't meant to indicate which side of this rather vigorous debate I support and certainly not meant to denigrate helmet wearers or indeed to kindle the helmet debate again. I sort of thought that a few people might find it amusing and a few would slag me off for riding dangerously and it would fade away after a dozen posts

For what it's worth (lower your expectations now.......now go lower), I wear a helmet (almost) always while riding and have a vague feeling that it's probably better than nothing. Haven't researched it much and can't be too bothered to. Also, since I have to wear one on club rides and spotives etc, and given that it feels comfortable enough then I may as well wear it most of the time. Oh and it saves grief from Mrs Thomk.

Don't tell me my contribution is worthless and misses the point, I'm the OP, have some respect