Helmet or no helmet??

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sunnyjim

Senior Member
Location
Edinburgh
I think we need an epidemiological perspective.

Sort out a prospective case control study - for each rider who has an accident, recruit a similar age/gender rider from a similar geographical area (i.e. likely to travel similar style roads).  Yes, this is highly matched...but...

Compare outcome variables of QALY & DALY

Ahh ...   Qaly & Daly!  - I remember them.  Comedy duo from the 60's .  ,.... umm or was that Morcome & Ronnie..?


Can I have another glass of that red stuff  you're on?




You sound like you might be a proper statistician type person?




There are two approaches- Top down - effect on life in general, and bottom up - do the bits work? Hopefully they meet in the middle.
 

Midnight

New Member
Location
On the coast
I recognise that in my earlier post on data I was potentially opening up a can of worms...


...I actually think the government could play a stronger leadership role in this area by providing simple, easy to access statistics to help individuals make better informed choices.

I, for one, am glad you did post that info James. It was thought-provoking. And it's refreshing to see that we can discuss the pro's and con's without the thread descending into the usual slanging match. After all, we're all adults here, aren't we? :whistle:

As for the government; well, I don't hold out much hope there...
 

geo

Well-Known Member
Location
Liverpool
A good time for me to join this topic as I have just un packed my first cycling helmet Ive ever owned. I've covered a good few miles over the years maybe as I'm getting a bit older my thinking is along the lines of I've got away with it all these years my luck must run out !!! anyway whatever the reason Ive just bought a Giro Monza and IMO like every other helmet I look a total knob !!! It does actually feel quite comfortable though even if it hasnt been used on a bike yet. Time will tell whether its the right decision or not although its something I really dont like and didnt think I would ever come round to wearing.
 
Does anyone else find that wearing a helmet makes you more willing to push it cycling down hills? I wear a helmet most of the time when I'm on my road bike even though I don't expect it to do much in a head on with a car. But for some reason wearing it makes me more confident to fly down hills at 40mph+ whereas if I weren't wearing it I'd be feathering the brakes at about 30mph.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Dunno really, but I like going fast down hills so I wear a helmet.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
Does anyone else find that wearing a helmet makes you more willing to push it cycling down hills? I wear a helmet most of the time when I'm on my road bike even though I don't expect it to do much in a head on with a car. But for some reason wearing it makes me more confident to fly down hills at 40mph+ whereas if I weren't wearing it I'd be feathering the brakes at about 30mph.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Dunno really, but I like going fast down hills so I wear a helmet.

Oh Dear! A classic case of risk compensation. The helmet gives you a false sense of security so you take more risks.:biggrin: :biggrin:
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
I think we need an epidemiological perspective.

Sort out a prospective case control study - for each rider who has an accident, recruit a similar age/gender rider from a similar geographical area (i.e. likely to travel similar style roads). Yes, this is highly matched...but...

Compare outcome variables of QALY & DALY

(I've not done this, nor measured individual variables for that...but...there will be methods published somewhere).

Long study - approximately 1yr - across England/Wales/Scotland/Ireland.

V. publishable. And might actually provide some sort of body of evidence.

On the other hand, risk is self-measurable. And the outcomes are also relevant only to you. It'll be a combination of percieved risk and percieved outcome. High risk, vegetable outcome = more likely to wear a helmet. Low risk, slight graze to cheek making me look hard outcome = no need for helmet.

Oooh, perhaps we just need a knowledge/attitudes/behaviours study first....
 

slowmotion

Quite dreadful
Location
lost somewhere
Isn't that just "soft science"?

All we need is data from car crash dummies from the safety/automobile industry about the forces to the outside of a large number of craniums (crania?) that cause serious damage to the brain.

Then, all we have to do is crash a large number of dummy bikes into cars, kerbstones, opening car doors etc from a wide number of angles and at different speeds. Job done.

I'm rattling the tin to pay for this.... any takers, or shall we just drone on as normal?
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
I think we need an epidemiological perspective.

Which is why I suggested doing the study on pro cyclists. All the variables you'll need to control for in "ordinary" people - risk attitude, amount of cycling, type of road cycled on - are automatically covered when you look at the pros. You've got one cohort up to about 2000 who, near enough, never wore a helmet. And another cohort from about 2000 who, near enough, always wear a helmet.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Does anyone else find that wearing a helmet makes you more willing to push it cycling down hills?

No. Next question.
 
I still have a problem with the whole concept of targeting a minority group....

Anyone who works in or with an A/E department will know that cyclists are few and far between. To remove that from personal anecdote look at any cohort study on head injuries:

The characteristics of the cohort agreed with previous surveys[sup][/sup]: 1255 (42%) were men aged 40 years or less, 575 (19%) were[sup] [/sup]men and women aged 65 years or more, and most (90%) were classified[sup] [/sup]as having a mild injury. The most common causes of injury were[sup] [/sup]falls (43%) or assaults (34%); alcohol was often involved (61%),[sup] [/sup]and a quarter reported treatment for a previous head injury
(Thornhill 2000)

Mayer Hillman looks at fatalities over a 4 year period and the basis that that a helmet could have afforded protection

Pedestrians - 39.1%
Car drivers - 24.9%
Vehicle passengers - 15.6%
Cyclists are the lowest group with only 8.5%

CYclists don't even enter as a risk group!
Surely common sense (if we are genuine about reducing head injuries) we should also be looking at the groups where more head injuries could be prevented as well, if not as a greater priority.

5 times as many could be prevented if pedestrians wore helmets and a similar number if car occupants wore helmets. Professional drivers already do so we already have the "proof" of professional use to support this.

Lets do the research for all the groups, not the least common?
 

JamesMorgan

Active Member
I, for one, am glad you did post that info James. It was thought-provoking. And it's refreshing to see that we can discuss the pro's and con's without the thread descending into the usual slanging match. After all, we're all adults here, aren't we? :whistle:

As for the government; well, I don't hold out much hope there...

Midnight - thanks for the feedback. I share your concerns about the government.. They seem to be good at producing large quantities of data, which no doubt cost lots of money, but less good at producing something that the typical cyclist should find useful. Perhaps they need to be driven more by the needs of the end-user (ie cyclists) rather than by some statistician within a government department.

Re your earlier comments on mileage, I've now done a little more research. According to the Deparment of Transport, the average miles cycled per adult was 39 miles in 2001. This report also stated that the average number of trips was 16 in 2001, so the typical trip is quite short (2.5 miles). Using this mileage figure I get a risk rate of an adult head injury every 487,000 miles. As I cycle 3000 miles/year this means for me I would expect a head injury roughly once every 160 years. This is higher incident rate than using trips (one incident every 760 years) reflecting that for me my miles/trip is greater than the average. As you say, this is probably a more realistic figure, although I also note other comments about higher risk rates for off-road cycling which I don't do. I'm not going to get an exact figure with this type of simple model - I'm really just looking for an order of magnitude. I'm OK to assume that for me I might expect an incident roughly once every 500 years or so.
 

Andrew_P

In between here and there
I don't wear a Helmet, the only reason I am considering it is I cannot stand all the comments about how crazy I am, and worse still if I were to come off or get hit everyone will say you wouldn't have got hurt if you had a helmet on.

The helmets I have tried are simply crap no side protection, uncomfortable when fitted in a way to try and stop it moving around and frankly I really cannot see in which way its going to help me. If I am going to get wiped out by a car or lorry then I do not think it will help much., the only time I could see it assisting would be in a 30mph+ self inflicted accident, anything less than that I reckon the instinct would preotect the important parts, probably end up with damaged wrists and or collar bone, knees and elbows etc.

That said I did read one report that suggested that Skater helmets would bre a better choice from a safety POV so may take a look at those.

It strikes me that it is all about peer pressure. My three kids all are forced to wear them ironiclly by me, but its not because I think they will help them in a fall, its mainly due to the pressure of what people think.

I do think its age releated, I left Cycling when there was no such thing as a cycle helmet and when I return they are now an essential item on the Bike salesman list when a bike is sold..
 

G81

New Member
Location
cambs
Currently I dont own one but I will do in the next trip to town.
I wont take my children out on their bikes without one so I feel I should practice what I preach and do the right thing, then I'll see if I moan as much as they do when its hot!
I dont want to find out the "what if..." in the case of an accident, but I can complete see that as an adult its personal choice (unless a law is made)
 

byegad

Legendary Member
Location
NE England
It depends on the type of accident you're going to have.

Falling off at low speed and hitting the kerb? A helmet may well help.

Head on into an oncoming car or off the road at 60mph down hill? The chances of the helmet making the difference are low.

As has been said above you take your choice.
 

Simba

Specialized Allez 24 Rider
Robbie, if you are going to wear one then make sure it is snell tested amd a decent quality.

There are loads of threads on here about helmet use (most end up in room 101) as they often get very heated.

At the end of the day the choice is yours.

I don't see why they should get heated. I wear a helmet whenever I am on my bike, does it make me better than those that don't? Certainly not. I choose to wear one, others do also, others choose to not wear one. Why is that so difficult for people to comprehend?
 
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