Headsets again...

[theclaud]

It'll be OK, there's good mechanics on the ride I here

Forget mechanics! On this one there'll be a sag-wagon! I might risk setting off with only a couple of cable ties, a spirit of optimism, and a hip flask...

 

[MacB]

Keep telling yourself that as you embark upon your next lengthy disquisition on the virtues of butterfly bars...

now, now, don't get tetchy, ramblings on any subject only have the potential to 'bore' if someone reads them. As this thread is titled headsets, then I expected to read about them, I've not been disappointed

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I have to say I think Ritchey stuff is cheap and nasty which is probably why it is on the Boardman bikes to keep costs down. I am looking at replacing the headset on my Spec Sirrus which I feel might be Ritchey as well with Hope or Cane Creak. The steering feels really heavy and sluggish and this is before I even put the bar bag and front panniers on.

Light, strong, cheap. Pick any two.
I've broken an XT crank. So all Shimano is rubbish.
I seen a Hope hub sieze, so all Hope is gone.
I've had a Cane Creek seatpost snap when I wasn't caning it but it left me up the creek.
etc.,
etc..

components break. everything decays. every component on every mass produced bike is there to keep the cost down. Price point sensitivity, marketing and all that.

As for your sweeping and inaccurate generalisations, re Ritchey/Boardman products. Keep 'em coming, you are entitled to your thoughts and to let your irrational prejudices show I guess. Besides uninformed opinions like yours ensure there a few more Boardman's in the shops for people like me to buy when we want one.

 

[Crankarm]

Light, strong, cheap. Pick any two.
I've broken an XT crank. So all Shimano is rubbish.
I seen a Hope hub sieze, so all Hope is gone.
I've had a Cane Creek seatpost snap when I wasn't caning it but it left me up the creek.
etc.,
etc..

components break. everything decays. every component on every mass produced bike is there to keep the cost down. Price point sensitivity, marketing and all that.

As for your sweeping and inaccurate generalisations, re Ritchey/Boardman products. Keep 'em coming, you are entitled to your thoughts and to let your irrational prejudices show I guess. Besides uninformed opinions like yours ensure there a few more Boardman's in the shops for people like me to buy when we want one.

Not my experience Grumpy - you're welcome to Ritchey components. I would buy a Boardman if I was in the market for one, but frame only which I guess is not possible as you have to buy all the whole bike. I would then build it with an Ultegra groupset and wheels.

I changed my headset on my Spec Sirrus today as it had become very ropey and noticeably unsmooth. On closer inspection after removing it I noticed it really was rather a cheap and nasty headset, then I spotted the words Ritchey stamped on the flimsy plastic seals to the cups and my suspicions were vindicated - crap. Anyway I replaced it with a Cane Creek S8 headset with stainless steel sealed bearings. The handlebars now move so smoothly transforming how the bike feels.

I would recommend getting the following tool from CRC to get the old cups out of the headtube. It's £16.99, so could be cheaper, but easily gets the cups out in seconds. Obviously you need a hammer or something similar to hit it with to knock the cups out.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10223

 

[GilesM]

I would recommend getting the following tool from CRC to get the old cups out of the headtube. It's £16.99, so could be cheaper, but easily gets the cups out in seconds. Obviously you need a hammer or something similar to hit it with to knock the cups out.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=10223

That looks like quite a clever bit of kit, might have to buy myself one, thanks Crankarm.

 

[Crankarm]

That looks like quite a clever bit of kit, might have to buy myself one, thanks Crankarm.

You're welcome. I wouldn't anticipate it being a regular use item, but one of those tools one would use periodically, without which one would be well and truly stuck or reliant on an LBS. I think if one has a few bikes, it pays for itself after a couple of headset changes. The use of long screw drivers as an alternative simply doesn't work and risks damaging the inside surface of the headtube.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Not my experience Grumpy - you're welcome to Ritchey components.

Well me and Cadel Evans and Nino Schurter, and countless other pro- semi-pro and amateur racers both on and off road....

I guess the cheap stuff may well be as nasty as you suggest. I don't know; I like light and strong as my two criteria.

Good call/spot on the tool, though for me, getting the old races off, and putting new races on a frame and fork, dressing the headtube, etc., is always an LBS job. And the only LBS I trust to do it for me is not that local.

 

[GilesM]

You're welcome. I wouldn't anticipate it being a regular use item, but one of those tools one would use periodically, without which one would be well and truly stuck or reliant on an LBS. I think if one has a few bikes, it pays for itself after a couple of headset changes. The use of long screw drivers as an alternative simply doesn't work and risks damaging the inside surface of the headtube.

Up until now I have always used a long hex 5mm hex driver (allen key head on a screw driver), the tip is blunt and flat so does not damage the inside of the head tube, but it has to be used really carefully as you only hit one side of the cup at a time, the risk is that you can tilt the cup enough to jam it. I have made my own Headset press out of a long bolt and some large 9and strong) metal washers.

 

[theclaud]

Headset trouble is a persistent thing when it takes hold. An update, for those that give a monkey's about such things...

I'm currently stuck with the original Ritchey headset (the other one I bought was nicer but came with two crown races of which neither fitted my forks). So I took it to the LBS to tell them the headset was shite. This cost me upwards of £200 that I could ill afford. Not because he charged me for anything to do with the headset, bur because he happened to have a nice set of Xero-Lite wheels that went rather well with the rest of the bike...

Where was I? Oh yes - he found me some better bearings, which improved the headset considerably, so that it is now adjustable (using an expander bung) to a point where it turns nicely without the lateral play. However, I discovered the other day that it works itself loose over about 30 miles. Now, it might be that I am not tightening the stem clamp bolts enough to hold it properly in place, but given that it's a carbon steerer and I'm playing "guess-the-torque" anyway when out on the road with just an allen key, I don't see that I can risk tightening it any more - I'm pretty sure it's at least as tight as the recommended torque and maybe a little tighter already. Any suggestions? Perhaps I should go back to the horrid little bear trap - I'd probably still have to adjust it all the time but at least I could leave the stem clamp bolts alone and eliminate the carbon-crushing fear...

 

[GilesM]

I expect you just need to get the bolts on the stem torqued up correctly, and use some thread lock on them. Although it is okay to do without a torque wrench, many people suffer from fear of crushing the carbon syndrome, a torque wrench does remove this problem.

 

[theclaud]

I expect you just need to get the bolts on the stem torqued up correctly, and use some thread lock on them. Although it is okay to do without a torque wrench, many people suffer from fear of crushing the carbon syndrome, a torque wrench does remove this problem.

Thanks Giles. The LBS torqued them to the correct setting when replacing my bearings - it's only because I've had to retighten them on the road that it worries me. I could get some thread-lock though - I confess I never thought of that...

 

[MacB]

Thanks Giles. The LBS torqued them to the correct setting when replacing my bearings - it's only because I've had to retighten them on the road that it worries me. I could get some thread-lock though - I confess I never thought of that...

I'd be concerned if they've come loose having been tightened to the correct setting. Worth popping back and getting them re-done with threadlock and seeing how that goes. I've mused over buying a torque wrench but I don't have the carbon considerations so have relied on guesswork. But this was on LBS advice as mine is a pretty old fashioned establishment.

I'm assuming you've factored in little allen keys and girly hands

 

[GilesM]

This stuff is also quite helpful, as I now live only in the mtb world I don't have a bike with a carbon steerer, so never tried it on that, but I use it on both bikes with Carbon bars and Aluminium stems, it works well.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=30012

If the LBS torqued up the stem originally and then it worked lose, I would say that there is a chance the headset wasn't all perfectly settled in, this can sometimes result in a small amount of play after the first few trips out on a bike with new headset. Re-torque it with some thread lock, and a bit of fibergrip, if it comes lose again, then I'd be very confused.

 

[theclaud]

I'd be concerned if they've come loose having been tightened to the correct setting. Worth popping back and getting them re-done with threadlock and seeing how that goes. I've mused over buying a torque wrench but I don't have the carbon considerations so have relied on guesswork. But this was on LBS advice as mine is a pretty old fashioned establishment.

I'm assuming you've factored in little allen keys and girly hands

My tendency with small allen bolts is towards over-tightening, I'm afraid - I'm new to carbon fibre, hence the caution. Anyway I've ordered some thread-lock and I now have a torque wrench. I'll have to pass on the fibergrip as they only have it in stock in unnecessarily large quantities.

Thank you once again, Gentlemen, for all your advice...

 

[theclaud]

For those who find headset sagas utterly gripping... another thrilling instalment...

I was being a bit of a f***wit before - I had measured the steerer for cutting while I was still intending to use the horrible bear-trap thingy. The expander bung has a sort of lip on it to set it at the right place in the steerer (a flange, if you will ) and this intruded into the measured space, leaving me a little bit short of adjustment room - the top-cap had been bottoming out while the headset was still slightly loose.

Anyway, that's remedied with a bit of spacer-shuffling, but I haven't been entirely happy with the headset the whole time since. It still seems to me that however I adjust it, the headset offers two options - too loose and too tight, and that if you want completely to eliminate the lateral play and rattle you have to put up with slightly crunchy steering. So I've been going for the crunchier option. This is, no doubt, taking its toll, and I can feel the beginnings of the tell-tale indexed steering of a pitted headset (after not very long at all). This doesn't much matter cos it's a cheap headset, and it will give me the excuse I need to blow some more cash I don't have on a Chris King. In red, naturally.

Which is leading me to another question - could it be that the problem all along has not been just the crappy headset, but an alignment problem with the head tube ends, or somesuch? I didn't have them faced - the LBS I bought the frame from seemed convinced it wasn't necessary with an unpainted frame. What do the headset gurus round here think? Is a spot of facing de rigueur? If I'm going to spend silly dollars on a new headset I should probably stop cutting corners elsewhere...